1. jameswilson1

    jameswilson1 New Member

    Just in case people missed my post earlier, I thought I would post it again. Please understand this people: Nothing in life is FREE. Universal healthcare comes at a huge cost and offers only a small increase in coverage to the people he proclaims.

    The big problem with Obamacare is that is doesn't help many. Existing federal laws already cover the poor, the elderly, and the roughly 60% of Americans who get their insurance through their employers. Those laws provide free or low-cost care to just about anyone who needs it, and ban practices like charging higher rates for people with preexisting conditions in employer-based plans. The law won’t help them much and could make them worse off, if you agree that the minimum standards for health insurance policies and broader access to subsidized healthcare by the poor will drive taxes and costs up instead of down.

    The typical young person could be much worse off under Obamacare. On average, young people spend less than $900 a year in healthcare services but will be required to spend more than five times that much to buy an insurance policy with many bells and whistles, like low deductibles and pediatric care, that most young consumers don’t need.

    It is requiring them to subsidize services that will be received by somebody else. It will be Social Security all over again.
     
  2. Tony Soprano

    Tony Soprano Moderator

    And of course the GOP's health-care alternative is: just don't get sick.
     
  3. Loki

    Loki Well-Known Member

    The CBO is not projecting a huge cost increase, they are on record stating it could be a net decrease in costs once all elements of the law are implemented. Per the link below, A LOT of previously uncovered people will be covered, 29 -31 million of previously uninsured Americans including those with pre-existing conditions that could not get any healthcare coverage before.

    Nowhere in the law does it require people, young or not, to buy more healthcare than is needed. If a person is happy with their current coverage they can keep it exactly the same.

    http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin...er-and-wisconsin-gop-senate-candidate-eric-h/
     
  4. jameswilson1

    jameswilson1 New Member

    The Dems say get sick and have someone else pay for it. If Obama was so passionate about this issue. Then it would just be a government financed program and he would cut other programs.
     
  5. jameswilson1

    jameswilson1 New Member

    The whole reason that Obamacare includes an individual mandate—the controversial requirement that everyone buy health insurance—is that the law requires insurers to cover people with pre-existing conditions. Without an individual mandate, people could wait until they were sick to buy insurance, because their illness would now be a “pre-existing condition.” This, in turn, would drive up the cost of insurance, leading to the infamous adverse selection death spiral in which nobody bothers to buy insurance, except for the very ill, because it is too expensive.

    Many of the people who go uninsured are young people. The young are just entering the work force, and therefore typically have below-average incomes. In addition, the young are healthy, and have much less use for expensive health insurance.

    Obamacare forces insurers to charge their eldest beneficiaries no more than 3 times what they charge their youngest ones: a policy known as “community rating.” This, despite the fact that these older beneficiaries typically have six times the health expenditures that younger people face. The net effect of this “community rating” provision is the redistribution of insurance costs from the old to the young.

    This is a favor that Democrats did for the AARP, which was advocating for its older members. Democrats were happy to help out their ally, whose members are active at the voting booth.
     
  6. Tony Soprano

    Tony Soprano Moderator

    But shouldn't health-care be a right and not a privilege?
     
  7. goodlove

    goodlove New Member

    the national healthcare is mainly preventive healthcare. 5% of the nation account for 50% of the healthcare cost per CNN on the healthcare special
    http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn...patients-account-for-50-of-health-care-costs/
     
  8. Loki

    Loki Well-Known Member

    The individual mandate was put in place to address the skyrocketing costs of servicing those that do not have health insurance. We all pay to cover the uninsured when they get sick or injured. Often times when someone got sick or injured they could not then get coverage due to pre-existing conditions.

    Federal health reform introduces "adjusted community rating," which would permit limited differences in rating based on age and tobacco use. So young people or healthy people would be able to keep their coverage and premiums at little to no increase, and potentially a decrease over time.
     
  9. jameswilson1

    jameswilson1 New Member

    If it's a right, then it has to come at a cost to someone. So are you willing to sacrifice the young to help the elderly?
     
  10. jameswilson1

    jameswilson1 New Member

    Here are the 7 fatal flaws of Obamacare:

    Fatal flaw #1: The penalty imposed for not buying a policy is very likely to be less than the cost of insurance for a great many people. This, combined with the requirement that insurance companies may not deny coverage to anyone with a pre-existing condition, means that a large number of people will forgo signing up for a policy, knowing that they a) will save money and b) can always sign up for insurance if they turn out to develop a serious medical condition. Thus, the actual revenues will far way short of projections.


    Fatal flaw #2: The government has no ability to enforce the penalty for noncompliance.

    Fatal flaw #3: Mandating that people buy a health insurance policy simply because they are alive is arguably unconstitutional. The Supreme Court has already decided to take up this issue and will begin hearing oral arguments this month. I note that a recent USA/Gallup poll shows that an overwhelming 72% of Americans believe that the individual mandate is unconstitutional. The mandate is also a way of hiding the fact that young people will effectively be paying a huge new tax in order to subsidize older people.

    Fatal flaw #4: Regulating the price which insurance companies must charge for policies, coupled with a requirement that companies must rebate to their customers the amount by which their loss ratios fall below 90%, effectively turns these companies into government-run enterprises and would likely result in the effective nationalization of the healthcare industry. That is a violation of the Fifth Amendment, and of a Supreme Court requirement "that any firm in a regulated market be allowed to recover a risk-adjusted competitive rate of return on its accumulated capital investment."

    Fatal flaw #5: A government-imposed restructuring of the healthcare industry can't possibly improve our healthcare system, and is extremely likely to make it worse. As Don Boudreaux has noted, "Trying to restructure an industry that constitutes one-sixth of the U.S. economy is ... so complicated that it's impossible to accomplish without risking catastrophic failure." No collection of laws or government bureaucrats can achieve anything close to the efficiency that free markets can deliver; the demise of socialism is the most obvious proof of this. Government control of healthcare will inevitably result in higher prices and rationing, leaving everyone worse off. Acknowledging this reality, the CBO in March '12 calculated the cost of ObamaCare to be $1.76 trillion over a decade, almost double the $940 billion forecast when the bill was signed into law.

    Fatal flaw #6: In cases wherein companies find that complying with the law would result in large increases in healthcare premiums that would threaten employees' access to a plan, the Dept. of Health and Human Services may grant a waiver to the company. As evidence of the first five fatal flaws accumulates, and as healthcare insurance companies continue to raise premiums to pay for the unintended consequences of government attempting to regulate an entire industry and hundreds of millions of people, more and more companies are likely to apply for waivers. To date, over 1200 companies have been granted waivers. At some point the whole edifice will come crashing down of its own weight.

    Fatal flaw #7: The individual mandate violates centuries of contract law, since in order to be valid, contracts to purchase health insurance must be entered into freely.
     
  11. The Dark King

    The Dark King Well-Known Member

    So basically the solution to the healthcare problem is to just let the insurance companies keep doing what theyre doing? What is the GOP solution? The reality is that the vast majority of us will need long term care at some poimt in our lives and I dont think the misfortune of being sick should either condemn you to death or bankruptcy.
     
  12. pettyofficerj

    pettyofficerj New Member

    Basically

    Shit I'm sick right now



    ...sick of workin
     
  13. Loki

    Loki Well-Known Member

    As a lawyer this is strictly a red herring argument, again plenty of stare decisis here, (car insurance contracts ect.)
     
  14. z

    z Well-Known Member

    1. Healthcare is not a right it is a priv........
    2. Yes doctors should make that much money. They bust their ass for it. They save lives day after day. How much lives did fucken Dwayne Wade or Lebron James save in a decade, zero, nada, that's right zero, talk to one of the docs in major hospital, they save at least 10 a day
    3. You wanna save money, get rid of frivolous law suits, turn away hypochodriac patients who abuse the systems for 2ndry gain. The docs are afraid of the shark i.e. ambulance chasers (lawyers) they keep ordering test after tests for CYA. It has become legal medicine than just treating pts
    4. Don't get me wrong, I am for poor and elderly to get decent care but we need a reform badly, we can't sustain this
     
  15. pettyofficerj

    pettyofficerj New Member

    i stopped reading this nonsense right there

    i'd love to see your ass without access to quality healthcare, when you got something over the counter crap cant fix
     
  16. The Dark King

    The Dark King Well-Known Member

    LIFE liberty and the pursuit of happiness
     
  17. z

    z Well-Known Member

    I am all for pursuit of happiness. You can pursue all the happiness in the world but not on someonelse dime. You got to pay to play, brother, lol
     
  18. z

    z Well-Known Member

    Cry me a river petty, get of your lazy ass, get a job, quit sucking off Obama's tits, be gainful employed, and get a coverage, lol
     
  19. Alinoa

    Alinoa New Member

    Um....yeah. No.

    Lesse. I'm not lazy. Infact I work pretty much 7 days a week. So I guess technically that would make me gainfully employed right? I think so.
    But my employers are not set up to offer health care. Why? So they can save money and STAY open allowing me to keep a job so I don't end up on the street collecting food stamps and sucking off obamas tits, as you say.

    The primary problem with the whole problem to begin with is to address the way HMOs do business. It's isn't about medicine or staying well versus being sick. They are in business to make money. You can pay into an HMO and still be denied coverage. I know because it's happened to me and others I know. Just because you pay into a program is NO guarantee you will receive services. Whether that problem ( the greed behind how HMOs is addressed) with Obama care or not..that's where it all starts.
     
  20. The Dark King

    The Dark King Well-Known Member

    Dude that's why I put LIFE in capital letters. Is that not the promise of this country? Shouldn't LIFE include good health because without it life is meaningless.
     

Share This Page