Wealth Inequality in America

No no no, I promise you there are not 'tons' who proudly go to work at McDonalds and Walmart every day. Perhaps replace proudly with dutifully. It's not a matter of laziness or hard work, it's also not entirely a matter of education.. though, I will admit that having an education will sometimes open more doors than not having one.

But, you know what. Lets not look at the working class poor in comparison to the wealthy. Lets look at the middle-class instead. The middle-class are also finding it increasingly difficult to make the basic provisions, obviously not nearly as much as those below the poverty line but when you begin to look at things like providing a better education or higher education.

What you seem to be missing is that the issue is more in the disparity in wealth distribution. I don't think you'll find many who will argue that the higher level employees should be paid more. The question becomes how much more. When 'c' level employees are making tens of millions and their employees are check to check, there is definitely a valid conversation to be had. Also, with the cost of higher education becoming more and more out of reach we will find less employees with credentials to apply for even the entry level openings that have better growth opportunities. Those who do go for the college education are coming out of college, and beginning the first rung of the corporate ladder already with massive amounts of debt on their shoulders.

The fix is pretty simple, flatten pay a bit more. I'm not saying everybody should have equal pay, but close the gap a little. Pay the 'c' levels, the VP's and the directors less and pay everybody else more. The direct result of that is that home prices will drop, the price of education will drop, the price of all basic services will become more affordable for all. Their will still be a wealthy class who will be able to do the things that the lower and middle class cannot, but the basic provisions will quickly become more affordable for all.

With all of that said, I realize fully that it will never happen. The economic market is driven by itself. There will be no pay regulation on private companies... it simply cannot happen in this country. In order for these changes to be made, it requires those few sitting at the top to willingly decide to accept less so that the mass can make more.

.... will never happen...

 

You gotta wonder why they ever did in the first place. What made them agree to capitalism in place of the old feudalist monarchies. Wealth was safely kept within the confines of those born into it or those who plundered it from other areas. Why allow the "lesser" class to have any opportunity at all?

 

You have an idealistic view of society and the economy. There is always going to be an argument for whether C level executives should be paid that much. But in many cases a CEO travels 300 + days per year, has a thousand meetings, misses time with their family. There are perks and sacrifices of having the top job.

Also, you said "The direct result of that is that home prices will drop, the price of education will drop, the price of all basic services will become more affordable for all." That is actually the exact opposite of what would happen. Home prices, cost of education, and goods/services would increase if wages rose in the country. Prices only drop when wages and unemployment drop.

The argument of whether CEO's deserve more than the regular employee is evident in almost every field. Does a football player who plays 16 games deserve $20 million and the ground crew guys are making minimum wage? Does Oprah deserve to make $1 billion dollars for a 1 hour show when her production team works 80 hour weeks for $60K?

There will always be a big wage gap in this country, but my point is that the production assistant could become Oprah one day. The ball boy could grow up to be a major league baseball player. And the entry level employee could become CEO one day. This is not the reality in most of the world. The poverty level in this country is considered $17,000. But if you make $17,000 you would be considered wealthy in 70% of the rest of the world.

 

Actually the rate of social mobility in this country has remained the same for 40 years. This is because of a few things, but the top two things are education and poverty. Historically, kids who grow up in poverty with parents who have little to no education follow the same path. But kids who grow up with wealthy parents who are college educated go to college at a much higher rate. And education is the #1 factor in getting higher wages. So the key to break the cycle is making sure children in low income areas graduate high school and go to college.

Your second argument is about corporations hiring overseas people for cheap. I understand the frustration because it takes away a job here. But understand that you can't have your cake and eat it too. If we paid an engineer $90k over the $30K Indian person, that means the price of whatever you're selling will triple. This goes for all products and services. So that will create an even larger gap in our society because the poor person won't even be able to go to McDonald's or WalMart because they couldn't afford that. The $1 menu would become the $3 menu. At WalMart, a $10 shirt would become a $20 shirt. Things are only affordable here in America because we do produce so many things overseas. It's frustrating, but its the reality.

 

Let's just say they decide to give everyone a $1 raise. If you have 2.2 million people working a regular 40 hour work week, that would cost WalMart an extra $4.5 billion per year. That type of increase would force them to raise prices, which would not solve your problem. So now you have actually created a worse environment for the people in poverty who shopped at WalMart regularly. Sorry, but this is the reality.

 

Dude you are way off the mark. First of the reason 17k is wealthy in other countries is because labor and services are so damn cheap which reduces the cost of living. 17k in a place like new york almost insures that you'll be homeless. Btw the figure is usually for a family not one person. And I don't know what turnip truck you fell off of but if you think people working for Oprah will become Oprah you are seriously crazy. Since when is it favorable to have a situation where life is a lottery. A few lucky individuals live well while billions suffer needlessly making barely enough to live on. No CEO in the modern age deserves to make 300 times what workers do. What exactly does a CEO do? They work 70 hr weeks just like the staff does. They aren't coming up with new innovative ways to make companies better and more profitable they delegate responsibility and take credit for the outcome.
The one thing I seriously dislike and pity about conservatives is this misguided notion of keeping things inequitable because hey one day you'll be rich too. It really doesn't have to be this do or die scenario where winner takes ALL and the "losers" get none.
How long is that going to be sustainable?

 

Tell me you're joking. Since the crash the wealth gap between rich and poor has never been wider. Most of the so called growth going on right now is rich people getting richer. The middle class is basically gone and without a middle class there is no social mobility. You're not going to leap frog from poor to rich without a lottery. And news flash when corporations outsource they ALWAYS pocket the profits they never reduce prices.
Is a car cheaper now in 2013 comparable to wages than it was in the 80s? Its all about the bottom line fuck consumers. It seems like a mad dash to get consumers to give away all their wealth to the lucky few creating another feudal system.

 

The problem with your argument is that you assume that companies like Wal-Mart won't raise prices anyway. I hate to break it to you, but they will. They always do! The money that those corporations save in labor costs don't get passed on to consumers in the form of lower prices, they go right into the coffers of the executives. Prices are going to rise anyway; they always have been and no matter how cheap labor costs are, that is always going to be the case. You give corporations way too much credit.

 

You're missing the point completely. There will always be a class of super rich that is completely incomparable. That isn't just for CEO's. That goes for athletes, entertainers, etc. My argument is that people from poor upbringing can still become wealthy. Oprah grew up in Mississippi and her mom was a maid. Now she is worth $2.7 billion and one of the richest people in the world. If she grew up in Cambodia, that would not have been the case.

The fact is that things are inequitable primarily because of education. Education is the #1 factor in determining success. Not everyone will become a millionaire. But if you graduate college and make $50 or $60K then I would consider that a success. We have a very large and strong middle class. Whereas other countries truly have wealthy and poor; with no options or availability for the poor to earn money.

 

Yes, it is always going to be easier for the rich to get richer. Having capital to invest and grow your money is always going to be there for that class. I'm not arguing that at all. There is social mobility. I have a Master's degree and in the past 5 years have doubled my annual salary. I'm not rich but there is mobility in the middle class.

And you are completely wrong when you say corporations outsource so that they never reduce prices. No, they must outsource so that they can keep prices low so that people can afford to buy them. Why do you think McDonald's and WalMart are so successful? Luxury goods makers are almost extinct right now. Businesses that are making money realize that things must be affordable in this economy. So please stop with the evil corporation mentality.

 

:smt042:smt042:smt042:smt042:smt042:smt042:smt042

McDonald's sells hamburgers made with ammonium hydroxide and loaded with empty calories. Wal-Mart goes into small-town America and destroys their local economies with cheap goods made over seas with a 500% markup. I call that evil.

 

It's not evil if 68 million people eat those hamburgers every day. It's not evil when those local people shop at WalMart everyday because they have the lowest prices.

 

Use of something doesn't mean it's good for the people. Are cigarettes good for people? There business practices are disgusting. If it were up to them this would be a nation of part time workers without healthcare.

 

How are people going to buy cheap goods if these places destroy local economies? Most corporations are in fact evil. They extract as much wealth from an area and move on after nothing is left leaving it shambles. We have the means technology and intelligence to come up with.something better than capitalism which results in far too much instability.

 

No, you are completely missing my point. I'm not arguing that CEO's deserve more pay. I'm not saying that there are not sacrifices that C levels make... they definitely DO deserve more pay. The question that I'm asking is how much more?

In order for an economy to survive, it needs a strong middle class. The current wealth distribution does not promote a strong middle class at all. The middle class should not be in a position where it's living check to check while trying to provide for their families. I have not seen recent statistics, but the last I recall the US ranked relatively low (for the powerful land of opportunity that we like to believe that we are) with regard to median wealth. I have a friend who graduated college with 96k in student loan debt a few years ago. That in itself is not a direct result of the wealth gap, but it does show that education is becoming out of the reach of the middle class.

You are right though, in this country the production assistant may become Oprah, and that's great for them.. but should it be at the expense of feeding a thousand families? What does it say about a country when a handful are making billions while so many including the middle class are struggling to make ends meet?

And yes, 17k would be considered wealthy in many other countries, but that says nothing about the wealth gap and the inability to provide for ones own family in this country. It's not like we're paying 3rd world prices for our goods and services.

 

Uhm, yeah... unless McDonalds says "We put a substance in our burgers that in large quantities is poisonous. Due to this, we recommend that you carefully consider consumption of our product." then yes, they are evil. McDonalds sells a product which is known to be harmful without warning the consumer in interest of profit.

Corporations primary objective is profit and they very rarely operate in the interest of consumers or community, outside of posturing campaigns. Corporations like Walmart squash small businesses in communities, Monsanto aggressively and ruthlessly destroys small farmers.

Yeah man, corporations are pretty much evil and so is the government as far as I'm concerned.

 

I'm adding to this post..
Wal-mart may employ 2.2 million workers but you know what else they do?
Have the average tax payer foot a snap bill of 265$ (I will go look up the actual numbers in a minute for each employee.

Nice math I'd say.
Especially when it isn't cutting into profits.

Edited: OK. So apparently the bills are even higher. For a 200 person store for just Medicare alone the subsidy comes out to a shocking 400,000 dollars.
One store.
In one state.

Yep. Lets let those record breaking profit corporations keep on ass raping the American public.

 

If Wal-Mart was a person it would be a be sociopath.

 

Check this out, hope you enjoy it, I've seen the whole documentary a few years back.
[YOUTUBE]/59a-nAbCYQE[/YOUTUBE]

The whole movie.

[YOUTUBE]/2dl0Pwcy3nM[/YOUTUBE]

 

There is nothing wrong with their business practices. For kids meals, they offer fruit,parfait, and milk. They even reduced the portion of the french fries. But if everyone keeps driving through and ordering an Big Mac with XL fries, then that's their choice. If you don't like McDonald's or WalMart...don't shop there.