Does anyone have good information on the position of people from Africa during Roman times (Julius Cesar years). Of course many were enslaved or such like many other cultures during the time period but also were they not respected land owners and military leaders of the Roman Empire. Was color a factor?
Yes blacks were popes,emperors,writers,etc. Based on historical records the first to stress race and color were rabbis of the 5th century. Check out Romans and Blacks, By Lloyd A. Thompson,Septimius Serverus: The African Emperor, By Anthony R. Birley,Blacks in Antiquity: Ethiopians in the Greco-Roman Experience, By Frank M. Snowden,Before Color Prejudice, By Frank M. Snowden.
Thank you , I will. I ask because I was under the impression that Cleopatra was a female of color however recently learned she was actually Greek and not of Africa. I will check those books out ASAP.
I saw a documentary on the History channel awhile back which chronicle her life as well as her family. From what I can remember, you're right. She was Greek and something else. Most of her family migrated to North Africa and attained wealth and power. However, it later would be destructive because of jealousy, betrayal and even incest. Apparently, she had relations with one of her brothers or something. This occurred with most of her family. Now every time I hear America and white women (no offense to anyone) wishing to emulate her, I just sit back and shrug my shoulders. Because she's no African queen of mine.
Um, I have some rather disappointing news. I'm not sure where you guys are getting your facts, but Black were not part of any ruling or wealthy class in the Roman empire. They were used as slaves, servants, and concubines quite extensively. However, don't go looking for a Great, Black Roman Emperor, or hero, cause you just won't find one. Not to disparage my people. But we weren't a big part of the Roman uppercrust. Blacks lived in the empire, were gladiators, laborers, maids, nannys, ect. In other words they lived mostly in servitude and second or third class status. My mom used to have this book. It was like a who's who of Biblical days and events, told from a Black person's POV. It highligthed all the Black. people who were key in Biblical stories. The most popular events of the Bible surround the life and times of Christ. He lived in the Roman Empire, and during those times, Blacks were looked down upon by the Romans, like the Hebrews and many other minority populations in the empire. There were Blacks included in the Roman Legions garrisoned throughout the empire. Yet Blacks were not allowed on the Senate, or to make laws.
I'm not upset with yours facts. Any bit of new information that tells of the true story is welcomed. Isn't it interesting, however, that this sort of thing keeps repeating throughout history though? Yal'll know. Blacks used as slaves, servants, etc. They were allowed to hold practically every position in society except those of the upper echelon (like the Senate). Imagine that.
What are you talking about? Do you even know who Pescennius Niger was for one? He was a Roman Emperor. You should look more stuff up in history instead of checking out some biblical stories. I've studied international history from around the world. If you check out Roman documents with other historical documents from other empires. They usually give a detail on who is what.
There are a number of places to find factual data but most things based around bibical events are going to be cloudy at best. I think we need to get past the "we were always slaves" thing. We were and are far more however as a man thinks so he is.
Saint Maurice was an African-Roman knight in the Legion of Thebes. I've read somewhere that the guidelines for chilvary were modeled after him. Also, he became one of the many owners of the Spear of Destiny...the spear that was used to pierce Jesus' side during the crucifixion. His name is engraved on it.
What happens when you deal with history, especially ancient civil histories is many part get left out. Romans were a xenophobic people with a superiority complex. They had strict rules for their society and viewed non romans as beneath them. Hence slavery was acceptable. Many of the early slaves of the roman empire were greek and other people in the area that were conquered by roman legions. Being roman meant being born a roman, within the accpeted proovinces of the empire. As the Empire expanded so to did the criteria of who was or wasn't Roman. Seeing that it is better to conquer and convert rather conquer and enslave, the Roman started issuing stipulated citizenships. now during this time africans( both north and some peoples from sub saharan africa) traveled to roman and greek cities. A notable African hero told of during the Trojan war was Memnon. some historians trace to north african origins while others say he hailed from a people that invaded and conquered ancient Egypt. He fought on the Trojan side and was mentioned in- the name of the book escapes. He was side to have been a great and powerful warrior who fell at the sword Achilles. Many of the stories in ancient Roman and Greek, Many of the writings and the like focus on the idea Roman or Greek which we see in media portrayls today. If an atom bomb were to drop now and there was left was some movies and books and the like blacks would be viewed in much the same light as they are when one looks at ancient civilizations in which the populations were at times multiethnic.
Lusius Quietus, Roman general Nubel, Roman military officer Gildo, Roman general Victor Maurus, soldier in the Roman Praetorian Guard Saint Aurelius and Thascius Caecilius Cyprianus, bishops of Carthage Marcellinus of Carthage, secretary of state of the Western Roman Empire under Roman Emperor Honorius
You are much smarter than I when it comes to ancient history. I think I will have my genealogist friends to help me(us), and I let you know what they say. They study too much history for me to understand (meaning how they got to their conclusions). As far as I have comprehended, Cleopatra was of mixed descent, and Aesop of Greek fame was actually black. That's all I know. I'll keep you updated. Black Tiger
Well, I think the problem with questions like this is that in ancient times racial categories like we know them today didn't exist. So you have to go either by eyeballing iconographic evidence, which is very subjective and not always reliable anyway because many ancient cultures used certain color codes in their paintings which actually had nothing to do with the actual skin color (most prominent example might be the "black Osiris", his black color symbolizing his status: "god of the underworld"). Or you go by location, whereas "African" is not always a tantamount to "black", especially when it comes to North African populations. Personally, I settle for looking at the nationality: African, period. If they were pitch black, cafe macchiato black or of mediterranean complexion is irrelevant to me. :wink:
Come to think of it, this is very, very true. Whenever I thumb through old history texts, this seems to be what they are getting at. The categorizations we used with 'color' don't apply to the retrospect of the Ancient Times.
There is a very tight lid on African history Africa is the ONLY place where Archeologist don't give credit for ancient civilizations to the INDIGENOUS PEOPLE Whenever something ancient is found in North America..credit is rightfully given to the INDIGENOUS peoples of North America.. but...that's not the case on our Continent..whenever something ancient is found in Africa..the INDIGENOUS PEOPLE are never given credit.. They want the world to believe that Arabs are INDIGENOUS to North Africa..and that is a LIE..and they KNOW IT..Even the Arabs know it's a lie..but they keep right on telling it.. The Ancient egyptians were not nomadic bedouins..
