G.W bush VS B.Obama

Regardless of whether you like Obama or not...he "plays the game" better than the white men who created the game.

The fact a black man has a very realistic shot at winning says quite a bit considering he's a fairly liberal Democrat....I think most people would guess that the first black president would either be a Colin Powell-type Republican or a centrist in the mold of a Bill Clinton.

The key for him...is focusing on getting into the White House. Every candidate in every election whether it's local, state or the national level is going to say whatever needs to be said to get elected.

He isn't going to please everyone...no white candidate has ever done that...and Obama won't do that. You can't knock his credentials and say he doesn't have what it takes but then hold him to a higher standard than John McCain.

And as for McCain....he needs to be careful because if the media is "liberal" like people say...they will start pulling old crap out their butt...i.e., cheating on his hospitalized wife, The Keating Five etc.

This election would be a decisive victory...greater than Clinton's win in 1996 but probably not quite as dominant as Reagan when he beat Mondale...however..that doesn't make good T.V. and the media is going to do just enough to help keep this race close.

 

It seems like there are predominantly male responses to this topic. Are there white women out there who want to engage in a lively political discussion with these guys?

I am a bit of a political junkie, in addition to being a fairly horny and newly single white woman (age 49, guys, in the interest of full disclosure.)

Certainly Obama is a skilled orator. He is not as good in hand-to-hand combat debate. Although I am a strident Obama supporter, I have to admit that Hillary overwhelmed him during the debates.

As for George Bush, I will probably spend the rest of my life trying to figure out how anyone who ever heard him speak could possibly vote for him. It is a total mystery to me. All I can surmise is that he comes off as "folksy" and, therefore, did not seem elitist or otherwise threatening to the American electorate. A stupid reason to vote for a Commander-in-Chief. But as the saying go, you get the government you deserve.

 

i actually agree with you, BMJ.

that's just one of those things you don't mess up on. it's really quite pathetic.

 

S-chic, do you really want to agree with BMJ? :smt017

Obama'a "A More Perfect Union" speech is easily the bravest and most important american speech since MLK's "I Have a Dream." (People in college speech classes are already studying Obama's speech.)

W has made soo many mistakes when speaking they're not even worth mentioning!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QW8-Q_iJr9A[/youtube]

And pathetic isnt screwing up the number of states we have.

-Pathetic is lying to your country to go to war under false pretenses and not even having a decent course of action.
-Pathetic is shredding the constitution and giving the executive branch so much power that you can break as many laws as you see fit and the people have no recourse but to pray for the day that you leave office.
-And whats pathetic is people who voted for w (this man isnt smart enough to put special sauce on big macs) in 2004 even after 4 years in which his ineptitude plunged this country into the dark ages.

When we give up all of your rights as a citizen in the name of "national security," what does that say about us?

 

Be careful dude, some people might say that you sound very "un-patriotic" right now. :wink: :lol:

The way I see it is that there are 3 types of people in the world right now:

Those who want change.
Those who don't want change.
Those who don't think that things will ever change.

I'm one that wants change and I'm very optimistic about the future. So while others believe that things are going along just fine, or that things will never get better no matter who is president, y'all should face reality and get accustomed to the fact that Barack is our next president.

If he is destined to win the election, then it's gonna be what it's gonna be no matter what. :smt045

 

Only flaw in you argument is that John McCain is not George Bush.

The answer is not to go the far left because of Bush's policies.

Just look at John McCain's record he has been saving tax payer money.

 

If you think Obama is "far left", then you have a rudimentary understanding of the term. I'm on the far left, Obama is a liberal with moderate tendencies.

John McCain supported the Iraq war and wants to maintain our troop presence there indefinitely, something that neither advances our national security nor saves taxpayer money.

And you're right, McCain is not Bush, but his chances of winning in November are going to be difficult by virtue of Republican economic and foreign policies over the past 8 years.

Arguably, a primary reason why a man with an African father and white atheist mother has a better than average shot at the presidency is because of the nightmarish administration currently in office.

 

How is Obama "not" Far left? for Gay Marriage for Universal Healthcare ( how can we do it?) For more taxes. etc He has pulled back his views to win this election.

we cannot just leave Iraq. Bush did leave a mess in our laps.

Your last point is correct. but to be fair this is a post 9/11 world.
Very true that it would take times like these for Obama to get the nod.
I just hope people can look past the hype.

 

Wow. I mean you actually believe that McCain is our best chance moving forward don't you? And if gay people want to get married then so what? It doesn't affect either me or you so it really shouldn't be that big of a deal.

The reason that Obama is getting so much hype is the fact that we are finally waking up as ONE country. George W. Bush and the republican party as a whole had us all fooled into believing that we would win the war on terror and duped many into electing him for a second term.

Obama never said that he was just gonna pull our troops out of Iraq overnight. He has always maintained that we have to be as careful getting out of Iraq just as careless as were going in there.

I was very skeptical of him at first and I'm not the kind of person who easily jumps on bandwagons either. Once I looked at his character first, his message, and finally I looked at his political policies.

I made up my mind and said: "that's our next president". I also did the very same evaluation with Hillary Clinton and John McCain if you were wondering. We don't need a boyscout for a president, we want a strong leader who has the mental capacity to make the right decisions.

This country needs change and it will get change. If all of you who voted for Bush in either election knew how bad of a job he was going to do, would you have voted for him? I'd really love to hear a response to that.

 

so maybe "pathetic" is a strong word...but it's definitely sad.

and really, so what if obama gave a great speech? hitler gave great speeches too. just b/c a man speaks well and can deliver (verbally) in a way that moves peoples' emotions, does not mean he is qualified to take the oval office. obama seems to be running his entire campaign on "hope", "change", global warming, more fuel efficient cars....but he can't ever seem to give a damn straight answer. it's always a bunch of flowery words and contradictions. his vocabulary of BIG words seems to change, depending on who he's talking too. you may not like everything george bush or john mccain has to say - you may not like ANY of it...but at least you know where they stand. obama is like alot/most politicians today....let's sugar.coat everything to make people feel warm and fuzzy. and the really "pathetic" thing is that the american people are so taken by him - they are so blinded by his charisma, charm, promises. no one wants to research...they don't go to politicians' websites and read up on where they really stand on the issues. most people would rather sit on their asses in front of the tv and listen to the liberal media cram its' "facts" down their throat. i mean, isn't that easier after all?

just b/c we have been inconvenienced at the airport, hardly means we've had any or "ALL" of our rights taken away. if i have to be inconvenienced for the sake of security, than so be it. it's kinda like when you're a teenager and your mom yells at you about wearing a seatbelt. it might be uncomfortable, it might really piss you off....but in the long run, it's for your own damn good.

and why the hell are we comparing george bush to obama in the first place? it's not like they are running against eachother.

i don't get in political "arguments" for a reason....and definitely not on the internet. i've learned you can't change a person's mind when it comes to politics or religion. i have my opinions, you have yours. i'm fine agreeing to disagree.

so, on that note....i'm done.

 

By the way, if anyone is interested in flubs of actual geopolitical relevance, check out this whopper.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWf7w--TwyU[/youtube]

 

Mccain's voting record is 95% inline with bush and other conservative agendas. Dont be fooled into thinking he's some kinda maverick who votes on issues.

And how does he plan to save us money when he wants to continue a war which is running us in the ground and when bush has left the country a 2009 budget deficit of half a trillion?

Have you really been that out of touch with whats going on in this country to think that its just about taking off your shoes at the airport?

-The suspension of habeas corpus, giving our government the ability to imprison people indefinitely without charging them or giving them their day in court. (Im not trying to sound condescending, but if you dont know what habeas corpus is, please look it up.)
-Politicizing the judicial branch, making it an attack dog of the republican party. (Which is a felony and an impeachable offense.)
-Illegal wire tapping.
-Torturing "prisoners" of war. (A chauffeur and a cook are not enemy combatants who should be tried in military court. Theyre servants.)

Peeking in my computer and bills, and taking away my rights given to me by the constitution is no for my "own damn good!" I'll pass, thank you!

Obama's morphs his position like all politicians do. (But at least Obama is honest enough to say he has to raise taxes to get us out of the hole bush has put us in.) Mccain has moved back and forth also. Mccain has changed his stance on off-shore drilling, ethanol, bush tax cuts, torture, immigration, and the confederate flag. (He now says the confederate flag a symbol of heritage.)

Its funny how much conservatives scrutinize Obama, but if they put mccain under a microscope half as powerful, they would see much more dirt than they "see" on Obama. (Mccain never has explained his involvement in the keating 5 s&l scandal, cheating on his wife, why he had the black reporter removed, or why he called his wife a "f*cking c*nt" in public.)

I know exactly where Obama stands: ending the war, raising taxes, pro women's rights, and not to mention he's intelligent and respected in the national scene.
Mccain is pro-war (he's lining up to take on russia. Why, because one of his campaign guys is a lobbyist for geogia), against women's rights, favors more tax cuts for the wealthy, doesnt respect the concerns of minorities, and clearly the least intelligent of the two choices.

And if its one thing we should have learned from w, intelligence is a good thing when it comes to a leader.

 

Okay Obama wants to get us out of Iraq what about the terror groups that will expand in the region. once again it sounds good but no facts.

Nobody is crazy enough to take on russia we will separate them from the international community. Hopefully we can drill for oil and prices will go down. So it will stop Russia's profits from their oil reserves.


How is raising taxes going help our economy? We have to drill and look for alternate energy sources. And how is it going help if it is all spend it on more social programs?

 

McCain shouldn't have to pay for Bush's mistakes (considering he voted with Bush 95% of the time) yet Al Gore had to pay..not for Bill Clinton's policy decisions but because Clinton got a blow job from an intern?

Interesting...how what we value changes depending on who is running.

 

Charisma and charm don't matter now because the Dem. candidate has it in spades but when John Kerry and Al Gore were the policy wonks and Bush had the charisma...all of a sudden Kerry and Gore were "boring."

McCain's problem is that he isn't a real policy wonk (a la Hillary Clinton). If he was...he'd have a great chance at winning. From a policy standpoint...him and Obama are quite different but their understanding of the political process is roughly the same which means that there has to be a tie breaker.

Obama hopes the tie-breaker is charm, looks, change, Keating Five etc.

McCain hopes the tie-breaker is "values", race, fear of an unkown quantity, Reverend Wright

 

Damn...and the webmaster comes along and slams the door on the little mix-up!

Its a wrap! :smt109

 

Yesssir!!! :smt045

 

We proved as a country a long time ago what we're really looking for in a president.

Looks. Charisma. Speaking ability. Most of the American people could give a rat's ass what the person really stands for, as long as they stand for something and do it well on national television. Before the advent of television what a president looked like had less to do with his election into office than it does now. Before television it was harder to scrutinize every detail about a person running for office, because other methods of communication, slander, and misinformation were slower.

Look at JFK. Good man, but he won because he looked prettier on camera when he participated in the first televised presidential debates.

I'm voting for Obama. Not because of how he looks, but because I want a president who can speak in a way that I can understand, not this ignorant bullshit Bush calls speeches, or the blatant fallacies McCain spits out. I want a president who shares similar views to me, which is what most informed voting American's want. Obama fits the bill, McCain is a Bush clone. I'm definitely not voting for McCain because, regardless of how many times it's argued that McCain is not Bush, he's been in bed with the Bush family since the beginning, since the elder of the two fucknuts called Bush was in office.

I don't think the problem has anything to do with how well qualified either man is. I have my opinions, everyone else has theirs, and we can all vote for whoever we believe to be the best man for the job, and we're -going- to, no matter what anyone says on a message board on an interracial ating site. I think the real problem lies with about 90 percent of Americans who don't care enough about politics to pay attention to anything except sugar coated poison. The average American can't even find our fucking country on a map, do you -really- think they can choose a better man for the job? I hardly expect the average American to come up with a better argument than "I'm going to vote for (insert candidate here)! He's just better. Why? I don't know. My parents raised me a strict (insert party name here), so that's why I'm voting for him."

Or maybe I don't give Americans enough credit. Maybe I'm wrong about how stupid the majority of us are. Maybe the fact that we can't even find our own goddamn country on a map should be forgotten, just like we should also forget suing fast food restaurants for making us obese and all those fuckin idiots they just happen to find roaming a trailer park post tornado to put on the news.

What we really need is a president willing to shell out money to make our kids smarter, cause we done fucked up in that department. Watch MTV and you should understand where I'm coming from.

And you know, coming from a person who hasn't had any type of healthcare options aside from cash in 6 years since I was stripped of the government funded health insurance I had because my family was dirt poor, not going to the doctor for 6 years regardless of sickness levels is not fun. Not going to the doctor because I can't pay for a simple exam is not fun. Not going to the emergency room and instead opting the cheaper, more dangerous route of self medicating and taking care of deep wounds y calling my mother who happens to be a CNA is not fun.

I just want a president that cares enough about the American people that they do something about this healthcare problem we've got. Too many people are like me, struggling and avoiding their basic health needs because they'd rather not starve, or because (and this is the best fucking part) they know that doctors will turn them away because they can't pay. And don't give me any bullshit about how doctors are required to see everyone regardless of insurance, because that only applies if you're dying. Don't believe me? Forget your insurance card at home and go to the hospital when you have pneumonia, and see how easy it is.

Sure, there are programs out there for underprivileged people who can't afford insurance, but the waiting lists are longer than it takes to get a fucking liver or heart transplant. I'm personally sick and tired of the people in this country slowly dying because they'd rather feed their families then get a check up.

But I suppose it really doesn't matter. In the end, 90 percent of what any politician says is bullshit. Bullshit to cow the masses into voting for them, which is easier than most people assume. If Obama were white he'd be a shoe in, because he beats McCain, regardless of blunders, on what the average american really wants...a nice looking guy who can spout his bullshit well, and better than the other guy. But he's not white, he's black, and that adds in a whole new level that people hadn't planned on facing yet. People expected their children to deal with the possibility of black president, not them. So now it could happen. Big deal. People are still going to vote for the guy who looks better to them. Policies be damned, we're fucking shallow. And as for those who aren't shallow? Well, they're going to do exactly like me: vote for the guy who's bullshit better coincides with their own personal views.

It's like superchicky said...nobody's opinion is going to be changed because of a political debate, just like a religious debate with a fanatical muslim is not going to convert him to anything but Islam. Free will is both a blessing and a curse, because it means that stupid people can form their own (or take on other people's) opinions, regardless of what anyone else thinks.

Fucking make me president. I'm smarter than Bush, and if previous comments are to be believed that means I'm smarter than Obama, too. But then, if I were president, gay marriage would be legal across the board, drug laws and punishments would be lessened, the abortion debate would fucking stop because I'm sick of hearing about it, and capital punishment would be in place to rid our fucking gene pool of all the retards. And no, I don't mean those born with mental retardation, I mean those fucking idiots who continually steal my oxygen to fuel their 3 brain cells and can't find GODDAMN USA on a fucking map. Oh, and all those whiny bitches who blame their problems on everything else.

And no, I don't know if this bloody post is even remotely cohesive, but I just woke up, my coffee hasn't kicked in yet, and I really don't care if it makes sense or not. So if you don't like it, blow me. I'm entitled to my opinion just like every other fucking idiot in this country.

Love, disposableheroine

 

Dang, girl! You woke up FEISTY today! :lol: Go get 'em! :smt023