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Allow me to retort. My thing is it's easy for him to be moral and not commit crime because under no circumstance does he have to. He doesn't need sleep food or shelter so who is he to judge people that do? He can never fully understand or empathize with people who rob because he has no real use for money outside of keeping up a secret identity (which is useless in today's world)
People who are inspired by him are usually naive fools in the same way people worship celebrities, we live totally different realities.
Which is why I like Goku better only steps up when there is a threat that the regular forces of the world can do nothing against otherwise he's training. Another reason Superman sucks as a hero to me, he never earned his power it was bestowed an accident of birth, another reason why the Jordan analogy doesn't work, so again how does he relate to or even understand man?
Everything is academic not empathetic with him. It's easy to be a boy scout when life doesn't present you with the same challenges as the people you police. It's like a wealthy guy complaining about people on welfare hey dead beat get a job, as if that guy has ever had to get a job to survive in this world. Like I said totally pompous.

No, Superman didn't earn his Kryptonian powers, but he did work extremely hard to master them. Otherwise, he'd be a danger to everyone.

The Jordan analogy holds, because MJ would still be a better basketball player than either of us without working so hard. He didn't earn his height, lack of genetic defect, baseline musculature, or genetic potential. But he busted his butt to control and maximize all of that.

And it's infinitely EASIER for Superman to be immoral and criminal. It's tougher for him to be good because he has the power to do what he wants. Fear of human punishment is no deterrent. The only reason for him to be altruistic is because he truly believes that it's right.

Think of it this way: who do you know who you could trust to be that powerful without being corrupted by it? Most people would turn crazy selfish and dark. But not Superman. That's aspirational and inspirational.

And not just the naive are inspired by him. I honestly have no idea how you reach that conclusion. He's no mere celebrity (in the DC universe). He actually does a lot of good for humanity.

And your wealthy guy analogy is off. Superman doesn't ever insinuate that everyone should just be like him. He knows that he's got unique gifts. He humbly uses them to serve others. He just inspires people to be their best wherever they are. Their best is different from his best. Just like our best is different from Jordan's on the court.

It's also interesting that you mention Superman policing people. That's not him. I read an article a while back that pointed out how Batman was more the police officer, going on regular patrol to root out criminals. Superman is more the firefighter, showing up when he's called to an emergency (kinda like Goku).
 
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But he's a man who claims to love Gotham so much but does little to actually help. He has billions and on a multinational company behind him. Invest in schools instead of spending millions on gadgets to run around behind the penguin and joker. Give people opportunity there will be a lot less crime. It seems like he never got pass the trauma of losing his parents so every criminal is an attempt to relive the situation and change the outcome. Which is why he recruits children who went through the same thing. Instead of therapy he trains them to be soldiers in a never ending war because in a depressed city there is never a shortage of criminals.


Bruce Wayne has the money to literally change Gotham City but he also understands that his family corporation and fortune are also susceptible to attacks from within and without. He also has to balance his life as Bruce Wayne and a life as the Batman(there are no guarantees if he will ever return alive).

Training children or any willing adult to become a future Batman to protect Gotham City is a necessity. Because Bruce Wayne isn't going to live forever. But the Batman must live on to continue the fight.
 
I never had a problem with any of those except for Superman and I wasn't talking about the League because as a unit they only confront global threats. It's individual members like Batman and Superman who exact moral superiority without having to really walk the walk. What does Bruce Wayne know of living in bad areas with limited resources and feeling like crime is the only way to feed himself. He just broods with a glass of scotch in a dark room in his vast mansion with a servant. Like I said help Gotham by creating jobs billionaire.

In Bruce Wayne's years long training, he actually did live a destitute life for a while in an attempt to understand criminals in some actual context. They actually added that to Batman Begins; he specifically mentions having to steal to eat.

As far as the homeless shelters, etc. go, you can't expect that stuff to be played up in a comic book. But even so, there's regular mention of all the work the Wayne Foundation does to give desperate people more (non-criminal) options.

I've already addressed the Superman stuff.
 
No, Superman didn't earn his Kryptonian powers, but he did work extremely hard to master them. Otherwise, he'd be a danger to everyone.

The Jordan analogy holds, because MJ would still be a better basketball player than either of us without working so hard. He didn't earn his height, lack of genetic defect, baseline musculature, or genetic potential. But he busted his butt to control and maximize all of that.

And it's infinitely EASIER for Superman to be immoral and criminal. It's tougher for him to be good because he has the power to do what he wants. Fear of human punishment is no deterrent. The only reason for him to be altruistic is because he truly believes that it's right.

Think of it this way: who do you know who you could trust to be that powerful without being corrupted by it? Most people would turn crazy selfish and dark. But not Superman. That's aspirational and inspirational.

And not just the naive are inspired by him. I honestly have no idea how you reach that conclusion. He's no mere celebrity (in the DC universe). He actually does a lot of good for humanity.

And your wealthy guy analogy is off. Superman doesn't ever insinuate that everyone should just be like him. He knows that he's got unique gifts. He humbly uses then to serve others. He just inspires people to be their best wherever they are. Their best is different from his best. Just like our best is different from Jordan's on the court.

It's also interesting that you mention Superman policing people. That's not him. I read an article a while back that pointed out how Batman was more the police officer, going on regular patrol to root out criminals. Superman is more the firefighter, showing up when he's called to an emergency (kinda like Goku).
To me any guy stopping bank robbers and petty criminals is policing.
And with whole truth justice and the American way bs he is definitely insinuating be like even though nothing about the American way says truth and justice to the poor and working poor.
And when you say who do I know wouldn't be corrupted by the powers thats based on the assumption that a person lived a number of years as a human dealing with human shit (which is why I absolutely loved that masterpiece Chronicle with Michael B Jordan, truest depiction I've ever seen if people suddenly had super powers). He has never known a day of sickness, a day where he had to fear injury, hunger, fear of not having shelter that shit develops our deep insecurities that makes a person corrupt.
And the Jordan analogy doesn't hold because even though he was born with certain genetic advantages in his world where he dominated he was no more physically gifted than most of the dudes he played with he just out worked everyone else, that's what made people like him Ali and Gretzky so amazing they were talented but their work ethic was what was other worldly.
 
No, Superman didn't earn his Kryptonian powers, but he did work extremely hard to master them. Otherwise, he'd be a danger to everyone.

The Jordan analogy holds, because MJ would still be a better basketball player than either of us without working so hard. He didn't earn his height, lack of genetic defect, baseline musculature, or genetic potential. But he busted his butt to control and maximize all of that.

And it's infinitely EASIER for Superman to be immoral and criminal. It's tougher for him to be good because he has the power to do what he wants. Fear of human punishment is no deterrent. The only reason for him to be altruistic is because he truly believes that it's right.

Think of it this way: who do you know who you could trust to be that powerful without being corrupted by it? Most people would turn crazy selfish and dark. But not Superman. That's aspirational and inspirational.

And not just the naive are inspired by him. I honestly have no idea how you reach that conclusion. He's no mere celebrity (in the DC universe). He actually does a lot of good for humanity.

And your wealthy guy analogy is off. Superman doesn't ever insinuate that everyone should just be like him. He knows that he's got unique gifts. He humbly uses them to serve others. He just inspires people to be their best wherever they are. Their best is different from his best. Just like our best is different from Jordan's on the court.

It's also interesting that you mention Superman policing people. That's not him. I read an article a while back that pointed out how Batman was more the police officer, going on regular patrol to root out criminals. Superman is more the firefighter, showing up when he's called to an emergency (kinda like Goku).

How so? Magneto's powers were tapped thru pain. So how was superman's god like powers mastered? Thru what sacrifice? Where is your Source?
 
Bruce Wayne has the money to literally change Gotham City but he also understands that his family corporation and fortune are also susceptible to attacks from within and without. He also has to balance his life as Bruce Wayne and a life as the Batman(there are no guarantees if he will ever return alive).

Training children or any willing adult to become a future Batman to protect Gotham City is a necessity. Because Bruce Wayne isn't going to live forever. But the Batman must live on to continue the fight.

In Bruce Wayne's years long training, he actually did live a destitute life for a while in an attempt to understand criminals in some actual context. They actually added that to Batman Begins; he specifically mentions having to steal to eat.

As far as the homeless shelters, etc. go, you can't expect that stuff to be played up in a comic book. But even so, there's regular mention of all the work the Wayne Foundation does to give desperate people more (non-criminal) options.

I've already addressed the Superman stuff.

I get that it's comics just understanding more as I get older why he sucks as a hero. And all those years of understanding criminals with his Princeton education he never compared and contrasted what made people do crime? He didn't look at the conditions that set people on the path and try to stop it?
Like I said its one huge tribute to reliving a trauma and save his parents in his mind.
 
How so? Magneto's powers were tapped thru pain? So how was superman's god like powers mastered? Thru what sacrifice? Where is your Source?

Yeah from all the comics I read his farm wasn't littered with dead animals as examples of trying to control his strength and heat vision. Seems like it all came pretty easy, he gradually got stronger but he was lifting cars as a baby so it's weird a hug never resulted in a homicide.
 
Same here, it took so many years for me to realize this especially with all the recent superhero movies and comics that have come out is this dude knows know struggle at all. He is the ultimate white supremicist archetype. Powers bestowed upon him at birth that just makes him better than everyone and wants to dictate the lives of others just sitting in judgement waiting to remove people off the playing board as he sees fit. Not to mention his most dangerous foes are guys with dark skin and a lot of brute force who just want to cause destruction because they are innately destructive.

White supremacist archetype!?!? You cannot be serious. He was created by Jewish people.

Where are you getting that most of his enemies are dark skinned? His greatest foes are either white, alien, or metal. They're not just innately destructive either: Lex Luther, Brainiac, Mr. Mxyzptlk, etc. I guess you could count Doomsday, but that's just one guy.

And could you please give me an example of his being so judgmental? I honestly don't understand what you are seeing.
 
I get that it's comics just understanding more as I get older why he sucks as a hero. And all those years of understanding criminals with his Princeton education he never compared and contrasted what made people do crime? He didn't look at the conditions that set people on the path and try to stop it?
Like I said its one huge tribute to reliving a trauma and save his parents in his mind.

Yes, he studied criminology. It's been a part of the Batman canon for decades.
 
Yeah from all the comics I read his farm wasn't littered with dead animals as examples of trying to control his strength and heat vision. Seems like it all came pretty easy, he gradually got stronger but he was lifting cars as a baby so it's weird a hug never resulted in a homicide.

This exemplifies the control that he had to learn. The fact that he lives on earth without accidentally killing people and destroying furniture on a daily basis is a testament to how hard he worked to master his power. It didn't come nearly as easily as you seem to think.
 
White supremacist archetype!?!? You cannot be serious. He was created by Jewish people.

Where are you getting that most of his enemies are dark skinned? His greatest foes are either white, alien, or metal. They're not just innately destructive either: Lex Luther, Brainiac, Mr. Mxyzptlk, etc. I guess you could count Doomsday, but that's just one guy.

And could you please give me an example of his being so judgmental? I honestly don't understand what you are seeing.

I was thinking Dark Seid and Doomsday since those were the two foes who brought him closest to death.
So what if he were created by Jews, wasn't Hitler of Jewish ancestry? And show me a Jew who doesn't consider themselves white fam. I never said anti semetic that's a different thing.

I think anyone who tries to uphold and enforce ideals like the "American way" is in fact declaring all other ways aren't right and like I said earlier I have a problem with someone who doesn't have human struggles policing humans.
 
This exemplifies the control that he had to learn. The fact that he lives on earth without accidentally killing people and destroying furniture on a daily basis is a testament to how hard he worked to master his power. It didn't come nearly as easily as you seem to think.

Yet there are no examples like I said he was a baby lifting cars but you never saw comics of Johnathan in a full body cast after throwing the old pig skin around it seems like he was born with that perfect control
 
This exemplifies the control that he had to learn. The fact that he lives on earth without accidentally killing people and destroying furniture on a daily basis is a testament to how hard he worked to master his power. It didn't come nearly as easily as you seem to think.

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I was thinking Dark Seid and Doomsday since those were the two foes who brought him closest to death.
So what if he were created by Jews, wasn't Hitler of Jewish ancestry? And show me a Jew who doesn't consider themselves white fam. I never said anti semetic that's a different thing.

I think anyone who tries to uphold and enforce ideals like the "American way" is in fact declaring all other ways aren't right and like I said earlier I have a problem with someone who doesn't have human struggles policing humans.

Superman renounced his American citizenship years ago for exactly that reason.

As for the white supremacy, I can only assume you're finding what you insist on finding. It just ain't there, dude.

But as long as I'm annoying you, watch this lol.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=oyl97TG8jbA
 
Yet there are no examples like I said he was a baby lifting cars but you never saw comics of Johnathan in a full body cast after throwing the old pig skin around it seems like he was born with that perfect control

There are lots of these examples in the comics and shows through the years. If I have time later I'll link to some.
 
When it came to the depiction of the movies, the perception wasn't rooted in hope, as much as fear and uncertainty, as the Snyder-verse Superman is more grounded with a reality that is a reflection of our society - woefully ignorant and allows emotions to give us a narrative based on fear. And it's reflected by not just people like Lex Luthor, but Batman as well, as he sees him as a perceived threat because of his power.

Interesting post, but I question your understanding of Superman (this will be long enough without addressing Batman and Goku lol). Anyway, Superman specifically ISN'T judgmental of human beings.

And he absolutely DOES apply himself, or he couldn't be the hero that he is. That's like arguing that Michael Jordan didn't have to apply himself because he had natural gifts. His natural gifts only helped him be truly great AFTER he got the character and work ethic to match.

One of the biggest complaints about the current movie depiction of Superman is that he's less hopeful and inspirational. That's because the core of Superman DOES practice what he preaches. Maybe his greatest superpower is that he's got the power to take over but he chooses not to. He prefers to inspire people to be better, not force them to do as he says.

And they call him the Big Blue Boy Scout for a reason. It actually doesn't get much less pompous than Superman. Also, if you believe he's never been in danger or felt fear, you clearly aren't the comic fan that I am lol.

Okay, the nerd out is over lol! This is an interesting conversation. Thanks for sharing your view.

Well, the world would be a utopia if such things were to work, but no...these are selfish traits. With the racism, sexism, homophobia, and other behaviors people exhibit, on top of diseases and other problematic ills, where is the good in clapping your hands together and reciting a meaningless chant?

False! (Thank God lol)

You may want to emphasize how, in the comics, that Superman blocked out of his Kryptonian side and have been unlocking his abilities as time went on, while he was learning to fully master them. It wasn't until he encountered Mongul II where he was able to unlock his limitless potential, which gave him the ability to perform the reality-breaking feats. Not only that, but he learned combat from Batman, Wonder Woman, Wildcat, and even mastered two Kryptonian martial arts to help push himself further.

Also, what TDK fails to realize is that his hero, Goku, isn't really that much of a hero, especially when compared to the original, Japanese, version. But, the Western company, FUNimation, attempted to write Goku as some sort of "Superman" figure by rewriting certain dialogue because his Japanese counterpart is more selfish and doesn't exhibit real heroic qualities. He doesn't fight to protect those he love, not quite as much. Rather, his desire is really to become the best fighter, even if it means the world being destroyed. After all, it would make sense because his heritage is that of a warrior-based race that thrives on fighting. The practical essence of survival of the fittest.

No, Superman didn't earn his Kryptonian powers, but he did work extremely hard to master them. Otherwise, he'd be a danger to everyone.

The Jordan analogy holds, because MJ would still be a better basketball player than either of us without working so hard. He didn't earn his height, lack of genetic defect, baseline musculature, or genetic potential. But he busted his butt to control and maximize all of that.

And it's infinitely EASIER for Superman to be immoral and criminal. It's tougher for him to be good because he has the power to do what he wants. Fear of human punishment is no deterrent. The only reason for him to be altruistic is because he truly believes that it's right.

Think of it this way: who do you know who you could trust to be that powerful without being corrupted by it? Most people would turn crazy selfish and dark. But not Superman. That's aspirational and inspirational.

And not just the naive are inspired by him. I honestly have no idea how you reach that conclusion. He's no mere celebrity (in the DC universe). He actually does a lot of good for humanity.

And your wealthy guy analogy is off. Superman doesn't ever insinuate that everyone should just be like him. He knows that he's got unique gifts. He humbly uses them to serve others. He just inspires people to be their best wherever they are. Their best is different from his best. Just like our best is different from Jordan's on the court.

It's also interesting that you mention Superman policing people. That's not him. I read an article a while back that pointed out how Batman was more the police officer, going on regular patrol to root out criminals. Superman is more the firefighter, showing up when he's called to an emergency (kinda like Goku).

There's actually a theory that throughout Superman's life, that he's trained to hold back his powers because he keeps growing stronger by the day. So, by that logic, if he really wanted to, he could have killed anyone if he didn't know how to hug someone that could be as breakable as a pencil or stick.

This exemplifies the control that he had to learn. The fact that he lives on earth without accidentally killing people and destroying furniture on a daily basis is a testament to how hard he worked to master his power. It didn't come nearly as easily as you seem to think.
 
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