Random Political comments...

andreboba said:
Elizabeth Warreen is my odd's on bet to win the Democratic nomination, and she's much further left than Obama.
I don't think that makes her a far lefty.

Obama had the votes to pass single payer his first two years in office, but the Dems got scared but the healthcare industry was opposed to it.

That won't happen to Warren if she has the votes in Congress.
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The TDK type of attitude is exactly why the far left will fail. The far Left has that approach In general. With the federal min wage being at $7.25?

Anyone that thinks it's ok to go at it guns busting saying they want $22 an hour before even getting elected is a joke. Not to mention the other baggage in the form of demands that they have.

Too bad Romney isn't more popular but He actually has a good shot at beating Warren.

Any common sense Republican that so much as claim to want to fight global warming gets my support at this point. Your far lefty's are a high risk for very important issues at stake.
 
Beasty said:
The TDK type of attitude is exactly why the far left will fail. The far Left has that approach In general. With the federal min wage being at $7.25?

Anyone that thinks it's ok to go at it guns busting saying they want $22 an hour before even getting elected is a joke. Not to mention the other baggage in the form of demands that they have.

Too bad Romney isn't more popular but He actually has a good shot at beating Warren.

Any common sense Republican that so much as claim to want to fight global warming gets my support at this point. Your far lefty's are a high risk for very important issues at stake.
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That's ridiculous my attitude is why the reason why the house flipped. Its the reason why the most popular politicians in the country are progressive.
Minimum wage at 7.25 is unreasonable. A person can not sustain themselves on that. And what's wrong with 22 dollar minimum wage. Its a starting negotiation point. You ask for 22 and hope you get 18. Every economic indicator supports the notion the more money consumers have to spend the better it is for everyone.
There are no moderate Republicans the entire party is rotten to the core with callous self serving conservatives who want to control reproductive rights punish the poor and give this country to the wealthy.
 
Beasty said:
The TDK type of attitude is exactly why the far left will fail. The far Left has that approach In general. With the federal min wage being at $7.25?

Anyone that thinks it's ok to go at it guns busting saying they want $22 an hour before even getting elected is a joke. Not to mention the other baggage in the form of demands that they have.

Too bad Romney isn't more popular but He actually has a good shot at beating Warren.

Any common sense Republican that so much as claim to want to fight global warming gets my support at this point. Your far lefty's are a high risk for very important issues at stake.
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What very important issues??
 
The Dark King said:
That's ridiculous my attitude is why the reason why the house flipped. Its the reason why the most popular politicians in the country are progressive.
Minimum wage at 7.25 is unreasonable. A person can not sustain themselves on that. And what's wrong with 22 dollar minimum wage. Its a starting negotiation point. You ask for 22 and hope you get 18. Every economic indicator supports the notion the more money consumers have to spend the better it is for everyone.
There are no moderate Republicans the entire party is rotten to the core with callous self serving conservatives who want to control reproductive rights punish the poor and give this country to the wealthy.
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Negotiate after you have a position to, like after you actually become president Beavis
 
Beasty said:
Yes. Do you see who they voted for.
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They voted for the guy who acknowledged and addressed their concerns. If he goes up against a strong progressive he will lose. People want solid economic safety above else. He can't deliver his track record is showing that
 
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The Dark King said:
They voted for the guy who acknowledged and addressed their concerns. If he goes up against a strong progressive he will lose. People want solid economic safety above else. He can't deliver his track record is showing that
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Addressed their concerns by lying about stupid stuff like coal. Did he even mention increasing min wage?

With people specifics matter or we all hear something different.
 
What we consider the "far-left" isn't as far as it used to be. The popularity of the "Bernie wing" of the party has pulled a lot of ideas from the fringes into the mainstream. Elizabeth Warren, Corey Booker, and Kamala Harris have all supported ideas that used to be far left like Medicare-for-all and debt-free college.

The biggest indicator that far-leftists can win was the election of Alexandria Ocasio Cortez, she is as left of a Democrat as we have seen in a long time. Hell, even before the rise of Bernie, ideas that were once far-left had moved into the middle like marriage equality. So we can dismiss the far-left all we want to, but if the mainstream Democrats take on the far-left's ideas, then the far-left has already won.
 
andreboba said:
What very important issues??
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Ok excuse me for being short. Again tho: Global warming, Healthcare, Social Security, Respect for allies/National security (not more money reduce budget) min wage and infrastructure.

Anything you want to add?
 
Thump said:
What we consider the "far-left" isn't as far as it used to be. The popularity of the "Bernie wing" of the party has pulled a lot of ideas from the fringes into the mainstream. Elizabeth Warren, Corey Booker, and Kamala Harris have all supported ideas that used to be far left like Medicare-for-all and debt-free college.

The biggest indicator that far-leftists can win was the election of Alexandria Ocasio Cortez, she is as left of a Democrat as we have seen in a long time. Hell, even before the rise of Bernie, ideas that were once far-left had moved into the middle like marriage equality. So we can dismiss the far-left all we want to, but if the mainstream Democrats take on the far-left's ideas, then the far-left has already won.
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You should really have a better term for free college. It won't be "free" every where this is applied only the top kids can even go to school. Then they can't change majors.

That's a COST
 
Thump said:
What we consider the "far-left" isn't as far as it used to be. The popularity of the "Bernie wing" of the party has pulled a lot of ideas from the fringes into the mainstream. Elizabeth Warren, Corey Booker, and Kamala Harris have all supported ideas that used to be far left like Medicare-for-all and debt-free college.

The biggest indicator that far-leftists can win was the election of Alexandria Ocasio Cortez, she is as left of a Democrat as we have seen in a long time. Hell, even before the rise of Bernie, ideas that were once far-left had moved into the middle like marriage equality. So we can dismiss the far-left all we want to, but if the mainstream Democrats take on the far-left's ideas, then the far-left has already won.
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I just read a poll recently that 72% of all Americans are in favor of raising the minimum wage to $10.10.
Does Beasty believe most Americans wouldn't support a minimum wage increase to $15??

I believe Amazon just raised their minimum hourly wage to $15.

Average people are waking up to the fact the system is cheating them economically and has been for years. Occupy Wall Street was considered at the time to be a bunch of far left radicals.
Now?? Nearly all of their ideas are mainstream.

I still wish Beasty would list 3-5 'important' issues the far left isn't prepared to handle.
The only real issue with the far left is they tend to be military isolationists and are against any kind of military intervention unless the United States is directly attacked. They also want to randomly close military bases around the world.

You can't fake voters anymore running for office, at least in terms of platform. Democrats are never going to win elections again by pretending to be Republican lite. In fact, neither are Republican candidates.

Trump ran as a phony populist adopting many of Bernie Sanders talking points. However, the signature accomplishment of his administration, giving a $1.5 trillion dollar tax cut to the one-percent was so obscene that Republican candidates couldn't run on it in the midterms.

Watch, Trump won't run on it either.

That's called a dramatic shit in the thinking of conservative voters.

The reason I didn't have a problem with HRC as POTUS, I actually preferred her overall to Sanders, is that the progressive wing had become so strong in the Democratic party that if she didn't govern like one, she was literally going to be primaried in 4 years.
 
Maybe call it No out of pocket fee College. NOPF College. Or at least admit that you don't really know how it works.
 
andreboba said:
I just read a poll recently that 72% of all Americans are in favor of raising the minimum wage to $10.10.
Does Beasty believe most Americans wouldn't support a minimum wage increase to $15??

I believe Amazon just raised their minimum hourly wage to $15.

Average people are waking up to the fact the system is cheating them economically and has been for years. Occupy Wall Street was considered at the time to be a bunch of far left radicals.
Now?? Nearly all of their ideas are mainstream.

I still wish Beasty would list 3-5 'important' issues the far left isn't prepared to handle.
The only real issue with the far left is they tend to be military isolationists and are against any kind of military intervention unless the United States is directly attacked. They also want to randomly close military bases around the world.

You can't fake voters anymore running for office, at least in terms of platform. Democrats are never going to win elections again by pretending to be Republican lite. In fact, neither are Republican candidates.

Trump ran as a phony populist adopting many of Bernie Sanders talking points. However, the signature accomplishment of his administration, giving a $1.5 trillion dollar tax cut to the one-percent was so obscene that Republican candidates couldn't run on it in the midterms.

Watch, Trump won't run on it either.

That's called a dramatic shit in the thinking of conservative voters.

The reason I didn't have a problem with HRC as POTUS, I actually preferred her overall to Sanders, is that the progressive wing had become so strong in the Democratic party that if she didn't govern like one, she was literally going to be primaried in 4 years.
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Do you have any issues more important than the ones I listed?? Or even equally important?
 
Beasty said:
Ok excuse me for being short. Again tho: Global warming, Healthcare, Social Security, Respect for allies/National security (not more money reduce budget) min wage and infrastructure.

Anything you want to add?
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Okay, great. Most Americans are in favor of addressing global warming and making our economy more green. The only people who speak out against it are conservative politicians in the pocket of the fossil fuel industry.
Far left is in favor of single payer/universal healthcare, wants to protect social security and is not real gung ho on our military mission around the world.
Most analysts I've seen agree our military budget is way to big and the Pentagon needs to audited.

The only problem the far left has is all these radical shifts at some point will require raising someone's taxes.
AOC and Elizabeth Warren have proposed some creative ideas on raising a 2-3% tax on the assets of rich people.

I agree that progressives are going to have to be careful which issues they run on because the Republicans are going to attack them saying the left just wants to raise your taxes and increase the size of government, never addressing what that tax increase is for.

For right now, I think progressives should talk about fixing and expanding the ACA, raising the minimum wage and infrastructure programs.
If Warren wins and gets the House and Senate, she should go for it, do everything she wants and pull an FDR.

If the Dem's 2020 candidate tries to take too a bite it might spook some voters.

Part of me thinks it doesn't matter because the Dems have way more voters, Trump is loathed and Dems are starting to win elections again by running as...progressives/lefties.

So many midterm candidates ran as hardline progressives and nearly pulled off huge upsets.
Gillum in Florida ran as a down the line progressive and came real damn close to being governor.

Similar thing happened to the Black female gubernatorial candidate in Georgia.

There's a left leaning shift happening in this country, the Dems just need to manage it and make it work.
 
andreboba said:
Okay, great. Most Americans are in favor of addressing global warming and making our economy more green. The only people who speak out against it are conservative politicians in the pocket of the fossil fuel industry.
Far left is in favor of single payer/universal healthcare, wants to protect social security and is not real gung ho on our military mission around the world.
Most analysts I've seen agree our military budget is way to big and the Pentagon needs to audited.

The only problem the far left has is all these radical shifts at some point will require raising someone's taxes.
AOC and Elizabeth Warren have proposed some creative ideas on raising a 2-3% tax on the assets of rich people.

I agree that progressives are going to have to be careful which issues they run on because the Republicans are going to attack them saying the left just wants to raise your taxes and increase the size of government, never addressing what that tax increase is for.

For right now, I think progressives should talk about fixing and expanding the ACA, raising the minimum wage and infrastructure programs.
If Warren wins and gets the House and Senate, she should go for it, do everything she wants and pull an FDR.

If the Dem's 2020 candidate tries to take too a bite it might spook some voters.

Part of me thinks it doesn't matter because the Dems have way more voters, Trump is loathed and Dems are starting to win elections again by running as...progressives/lefties.

So many midterm candidates ran as hardline progressives and nearly pulled off huge upsets.
Gillum in Florida ran as a down the line progressive and came real damn close to being governor.

Similar thing happened to the Black female gubernatorial candidate in Georgia.

There's a left leaning shift happening in this country, the Dems just need to manage it and make it work.
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Now we are starting to get somewhere. These things could be better done with a candidate that doesn't have such a far left reputation tho. People have learned from the experience of 45 attacking the ACA, so they should be more receptive to it being fixed.

Every single thing that the far left wants can't be realistically done in one term, at least without push back. You see how ignorantly 45 was allowed to attack the funding of the ACA. I don't mind the idea of single payer. The main thing is that everyone should be covered period irrespective of preconditions ect. If we have to increase taxes, that's a worthwhile reason. After the military budget is fixed that should free up some room and off set at least some of the increase.

The thing is when you have whack doodle states like California associated with the far left, you have to distance yourself from that fuckery. No preference should come before necessity. Also, the free college bullshit is a preference and shouldn't be at the forefront.

Right now if you have the will you can go to school, meanwhile people are dying of Cancer without insurance. Get the fuck out of here with that shit.
 
This is not meant as a rebuttal to anything, I just thought it was interesting.

I may not be able to fathom how black people could support Trump, but I do think conversations like this are important to have.


I've said before that I'm neither all liberal or all conservative, so I could sit on either side (or neither side) of this panel.

Side note: The blonde sister in front needs to learn to not let herself get triggered so easily.
 
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