Random Political comments...

Obviously they see Capitalism as something to only be tolerated until it can be completely removed.

Private corporations seem to be a permanent fixture in the US, so why work towards socialism?


"In the short term we can’t eliminate private corporations, but we can bring them under greater democratic control.
The government could use regulations and tax incentives to encourage companies to act in the public interest and outlaw destructive activities such as exporting jobs to low-wage countries and polluting our environment. Public pressure can also have a critical role to play in the struggle to hold corporations accountable. Most of all, socialists look to unions to make private business more accountable."

What does the sentence in bold tell you? The long term objective is to eliminate capitalism. No corporations = no capitalism. Capitalism is to be tolerated until it can be eliminated. If they weren't for the idea of eliminating corporations, they would have said so.

Hilarious that you back peddle and say that you want to savage a system that you think is responsible for racism and slavery. One thing I do give them credit for is being consistent. They blame Capitalism for Americas ills and unlike you they are consistent, let their balls hang and admit that they want to get rid of it.

Your pizza example doesn't tell the story. Jeff Bezos can afford a millions of pizzas but he won't buy them because he has no use for them. Instead he will keep investing his money in the economy, making it available for others that have viable ideas. That is capitalism. How else would he continue to earn from it?

Also, the term "democratic socialism" is silly to begin with. We vote with our dollars. Don't like the fact that one man keeps getting richer then stop shopping at Amazon, there's a novel idea for you. Actions always speak louder.
So much to unpack here. Did capitalism exist before corporations?
If corporations continue to exist the way they do with little regulation where do you think that leaves us?
Democratic socialism simply means a system in which the people regardless of income participate and benefit from the system. Its not a system of the rich where its a game of monopoly where realistically there's only one winner.
What do you think capitalism is?
 
The problem with social media scolds is that they don't want to sacrifice their 21st century lifestyles. Amazon is too convienent and cheap. Underage Asian kids exposed to lead and mercury daily build their smartphones and laptops from which they praise socialism.

Capitalism raised the best of us out of poverty and some into near-parity with whites, so I find it strange that white "progressives" are now opposed to it. Or maybe not so strange.
You can criticize and IMPROVE the system its not zero sum.
90 years ago you could make a worker work 7 days a week no days off no vacation no sick nothing. Creating regulations that allow people to test made for better productivity and even more importantly freed people up to spend money on consumer goods making a better life for everyone.
Capitalism does not have to be a system of exploitation and wage slavery. Yes we enjoy the conveniece of online shopping but can say the way its being done isnt the best way lets change it.
 
So much to unpack here. Did capitalism exist before corporations?
If corporations continue to exist the way they do with little regulation where do you think that leaves us?
Democratic socialism simply means a system in which the people regardless of income participate and benefit from the system. Its not a system of the rich where its a game of monopoly where realistically there's only one winner.
What do you think capitalism is?
I've already demonstrated much more of an understanding of capitalism than you have.

Your explanation of democratic socialism is empty and as vague as a vacuum. Don't you think you should have more to add? After all this is a system that you're talking about, and obviously the proponents of that system would rather for corporations to not exist.

No corporations = no capitalism. pure and simple.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Is this not a true statement to you?
 
Well if you want the "public" to own corporations in lieu of investors then that's socialism. lol. Government = public ownership. Are you sure that's how Europe's economies are ran?

Even if the workers were the only owners then how to you think decisions are going to be made? Workers vote for managers? So a guy that does welding is gonna have a say in who the manufacturing manager is? That is out of his element of expertise, do you really expect that to work? If the workers don't like him, they vote to remove him? Then you're gonna have a company that is ran based on bias and feelings. No thanks. I'm not against unions, but C0-0ps aren't necessary. A good company offers stock options as compensation, thus giving you an opportunity to be part owner in a more sensible way.

If you want Co-ops then you can create them here in this economy, no? Is it illegal? So why not just create them instead of suggesting that corporations shouldn't exist. Rhetorical, because people are afraid that the co-ops wouldn't be able to compete. So they rather ban corporations because their idea can't compete with them.
Stock options are rarely offered to associates and below. Where I work stock options are just stocks at discounted prices only offered to execs and outstanding performers ready to be execs which leaves the vast majority of workers out in the cold not to mention the focus of most companies right now is to reduce labor costs so workers either get paid less or are eliminated so how would they even participate. I also think you misunderstand a co-op. Much like share holders in a company they may have some input on who gets to be CEO but its usually up to a board to make those decisions and even more so they have zero input into who becomes a manager. Managers are usually associates who are promoted because they have exhibited excellence knowledge of the business.
 
Stock options are rarely offered to associates and below. Where I work stock options are just stocks at discounted prices only offered to execs and outstanding performers ready to be execs which leaves the vast majority of workers out in the cold not to mention the focus of most companies right now is to reduce labor costs so workers either get paid less or are eliminated so how would they even participate. I also think you misunderstand a co-op. Much like share holders in a company they may have some input on who gets to be CEO but its usually up to a board to make those decisions and even more so they have zero input into who becomes a manager. Managers are usually associates who are promoted because they have exhibited excellence knowledge of the business.
Who elects the board?
 
I've already demonstrated much more of an understanding of capitalism than you have.

Your explanation of democratic socialism is empty and as vague as a vacuum. Don't you think you should have more to add? After all this is a system that you're talking about, and obviously the proponents of that system would rather for corporations to not exist.

No corporations = no capitalism. pure and simple.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Is this not a true statement to you?
No take a farm or even local bodega are they corporations or considered small businesses? The idea of a corporation is to be a monopoly a single source that has complete control leaving no options. Why do you think companies merge? Its all about market share control. That's the Amazon model they operate at a loss most years but they increase market share so there arent other options. You don't have to compete and the more shares you have the more equity. That's a corporation they generally operate like a virus. Destroy all resources and leave nothing behind.
Very few truly benefit from that model
 
Stock options are rarely offered to associates and below. Where I work stock options are just stocks at discounted prices only offered to execs and outstanding performers ready to be execs which leaves the vast majority of workers out in the cold not to mention the focus of most companies right now is to reduce labor costs so workers either get paid less or are eliminated so how would they even participate. I also think you misunderstand a co-op. Much like share holders in a company they may have some input on who gets to be CEO but its usually up to a board to make those decisions and even more so they have zero input into who becomes a manager. Managers are usually associates who are promoted because they have exhibited excellence knowledge of the business.
I'm essentially talking about a pension plan. It could be matching what you invest or stock options. If you invest in their stock, there isn't much of a difference.
 
Well if you want the "public" to own corporations in lieu of investors then that's socialism. lol. Government = public ownership. Are you sure that's how Europe's economies are ran?

Even if the workers were the only owners then how to you think decisions are going to be made? Workers vote for managers? So a guy that does welding is gonna have a say in who the manufacturing manager is? That is out of his element of expertise, do you really expect that to work? If the workers don't like him, they vote to remove him? Then you're gonna have a company that is ran based on bias and feelings. No thanks. I'm not against unions, but C0-0ps aren't necessary. A good company offers stock options as compensation, thus giving you an opportunity to be part owner in a more sensible way.

If you want Co-ops then you can create them here in this economy, no? Is it illegal? So why not just create them instead of suggesting that corporations shouldn't exist. Rhetorical, because people are afraid that the co-ops wouldn't be able to compete. So they rather ban corporations because their idea can't compete with them.


Really Beasty, I don't know of any serious people who are in favor of banning corporations. IMO the link you posted on Democratic socialism isn't how many who support it would define it.

I believe labor should always be a part of management and ownership of any corporations, which is what unions used to provide for workers.
Shareholders don't typically side with labor in most corporations, which is why labor needs its own representation.

Cops and firefighters have unions. Doctors are allowed to join unions. Actors have unions. Teachers have unions. All the major pro sports in America represent their players through unions.

Yet somehow most Americans have been convinced unions are bad for Fortune 500 companies and stunt business growth.

No, what they really do is force corporations to redistribute profits in a more equitable way for labor to benefit.

Working wages nationwide have been stagnant for over 20 years, which directly coincides with the elimination of corporate unions in America.

I wonder how you feel about pensions, which many AMericans were provided after retiring from white collar careers.
 
No take a farm or even local bodega are they corporations or considered small businesses? The idea of a corporation is to be a monopoly a single source that has complete control leaving no options. Why do you think companies merge? Its all about market share control. That's the Amazon model they operate at a loss most years but they increase market share so there arent other options. You don't have to compete and the more shares you have the more equity. That's a corporation they generally operate like a virus. Destroy all resources and leave nothing behind.
Very few truly benefit from that model
Nope. Corporations were created so that the managers don't necessarily have to be the owners. Any business wants more market share and control. That's how they grow and survive. Even coke dealers fight for market share. lol
 
Who elects the board?
Depends on the set up. It could be the founders of the business maybe even a union or workers. But even if it is the workers who choose the board members they don't get to vote them out on a whim. Both myself and my girl serve on several and the process to be chosen and even to leave is pretty rigorous. Also keep in mind if everyone is vested in the success of the business emotions tend to take control of situations less. The relationship is different workers arent simply commodities to be used and discarded they have on the ground input to make the business better and they are more inclined to do so to add value to their own share of the place.
 
I'm essentially talking about a pension plan. It could be matching what you invest or stock options. If you invest in their stock, there isn't much of a difference.
Have you seen the American landscape lately barely anyone offers a pension. Pensions were a negotiation point to make workers stay. If you can possibly get cheaper labor elsewhere who cares if anyone stays.
 
Nope. Corporations were created so that the managers don't necessarily have to be the owners. Any business wants more market share and control. That's how they grow and survive. Even coke dealers fight for market share. lol
This creates better options for financing!
 
Nope. Corporations were created so that the managers don't necessarily have to be the owners. Any business wants more market share and control. That's how they grow and survive. Even coke dealers fight for market share. lol
That's why monopolies aren't allowed its only good for owners bad for consumers and labor.
 
Depends on the set up. It could be the founders of the business maybe even a union or workers. But even if it is the workers who choose the board members they don't get to vote them out on a whim. Both myself and my girl serve on several and the process to be chosen and even to leave is pretty rigorous. Also keep in mind if everyone is vested in the success of the business emotions tend to take control of situations less. The relationship is different workers arent simply commodities to be used and discarded they have on the ground input to make the business better and they are more inclined to do so to add value to their own share of the place.
So this is legal and it already exists Soo...........What on Earth is your argument??? Keep building them, if they are more efficient they will out compete the corporations and the corporations will go out of business.
 
So this is legal and it already exists Soo...........What on Earth is your argument??? Keep building them, if they are more efficient they will out compete the corporations and the corporations will go out of business.
You still think there's competition? Ok carry on
 
Really Beasty, I don't know of any serious people who are in favor of banning corporations. IMO the link you posted on Democratic socialism isn't how many who support it would define it.

I believe labor should always be a part of management and ownership of any corporations, which is what unions used to provide for workers.
Shareholders don't typically side with labor in most corporations, which is why labor needs its own representation.

Cops and firefighters have unions. Doctors are allowed to join unions. Actors have unions. Teachers have unions. All the major pro sports in America represent their players through unions.

Yet somehow most Americans have been convinced unions are bad for Fortune 500 companies and stunt business growth.

No, what they really do is force corporations to redistribute profits in a more equitable way for labor to benefit.

Working wages nationwide have been stagnant for over 20 years, which directly coincides with the elimination of corporate unions in America.

I wonder how you feel about pensions, which many AMericans were provided after retiring from white collar careers.
As I said before, I'm not opposed to unions. UPS does well with them. They still work hard tho.

You can't deny what's on THEIR webpage. Lol. At least post a link to your source.
 
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