I Believe That...

meowkittenmeow said:
I’m aware of Glileo as well as others. I put my trust in science. I can’t trust thousand year old religions. It’s ridiculous. I think the trauma compounded with indoctrination is what keeps black people praying at the feet of that particular white diety and that particular religion.
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I'll drink to that

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meowkittenmeow said:
I see. So... is your diety going to end white supremacy or naw?
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No, why would I think he would?

Beasty said:
Either you want to believe that it has helped black folk, or you think the only thing that matters is the "afterlife."

If the former you're simply delusional. If the latter, you are doing a great job of looking at this life on earth as not being important.

Funny how only black folks do a great job at that. Then again a lot of black christians hilariously think that they are the "chosen people" from that scripture

about being a stranger in a foreign land for 400 years and yada yada. So I guess that makes everything ok.

Fact is black folks are fucked up and that religion has a lot to do with it.

It doesn't affect whites the same way at all.
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Christianity has hurt black people in the same way it has hurt many others. It was used to justify slavery and white supremacy. But, so have many other religions and scientific theories throughout time. What I do know is Christianity also played a huge role in freeing slaves and progressing civil rights. Not saying there weren't atheist and other forms of belief involved, but the heavy lifting was done by the black Christian church. Of course, you are welcome to prove me wrong. I just finished a big project. I got time to argue.

Also, do I strike you as being someone who doesn't care about the here and now or is the least bit delusional?

Beasty said:
Truth.

Also people don't like to deal with not knowing.

My thing is that religions and religious people are subject to criticism just like anything else. There isn't anything beyond questioning.

This quote by Richard Feynman sums it up for me.

“I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong. I have approximate answers and possible beliefs and different degrees of uncertainty about different things, but I am not absolutely sure of anything and there are many things I don't know anything about, such as whether it means anything to ask why we're here. I don't have to know an answer. I don't feel frightened not knowing things, by being lost in a mysterious universe without any purpose, which is the way it really is as far as I can tell.”
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Good, because the bible is not here to answer the mysteries of the universe. Also, the bible tells you to question everything. Including the bible. If you actually knew what you were talking about, you'd know that. For two guys that claim to be so factually driven, you sure do make a lot of statements based on nothing more than assumptions and feelings. That's the same ignorant shit bible thumpers do. Six of one half, half a dozen of the other.
 
samson1701 said:
No, why would I think he would?


Christianity has hurt black people in the same way it has hurt many others. It was used to justify slavery and white supremacy. But, so have many other religions and scientific theories throughout time. What I do know is Christianity also played a huge role in freeing slaves and progressing civil rights. Not saying there weren't atheist and other forms of belief involved, but the heavy lifting was done by the black Christian church. Of course, you are welcome to prove me wrong. I just finished a big project. I got time to argue.

Also, do I strike you as being someone who doesn't care about the here and now or is the least bit delusional?



Good, because the bible is not here to answer the mysteries of the universe. Also, the bible tells you to question everything. Including the bible. If you actually knew what you were talking about, you'd know that. For two guys that claim to be so factually driven, you sure do make a lot of statements based on nothing more than assumptions and feelings. That's the same ignorant shit bible thumpers do. Six of one half, half a dozen of the other.
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I'm not going to debate with you about what the Bible says because it says a lot of things, is contradictory, and based off of stories stolen from Egypt and totally contrary to science and common sense at the most fundamental level.

So if you feel that it's contrary to what I said it is, then you're not really saying anything, feel free to believe what you want as I'm free to call it how I see it.
 
samson1701 said:
No, why would I think he would?


Christianity has hurt black people in the same way it has hurt many others. It was used to justify slavery and white supremacy. But, so have many other religions and scientific theories throughout time. What I do know is Christianity also played a huge role in freeing slaves and progressing civil rights. Not saying there weren't atheist and other forms of belief involved, but the heavy lifting was done by the black Christian church. Of course, you are welcome to prove me wrong. I just finished a big project. I got time to argue.

Also, do I strike you as being someone who doesn't care about the here and now or is the least bit delusional?



Good, because the bible is not here to answer the mysteries of the universe. Also, the bible tells you to question everything. Including the bible. If you actually knew what you were talking about, you'd know that. For two guys that claim to be so factually driven, you sure do make a lot of statements based on nothing more than assumptions and feelings. That's the same ignorant shit bible thumpers do. Six of one half, half a dozen of the other.
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I dunno, an all powerful being that you pray to to help you out... I just kind of figured that he/she would be able to end white supremacy. But, I kind of get it now. It’s like with superheroes. You have to right in some sort of weakness or excuse as to why they won’t fix anything.

it’s basically like back in the day, sacrificing and or orgies to get the attention of the diety, then offerings and then you can have rain for crops or whatever. So, your deity’s powers aren’t like thanos with the infinity gauntlet, he is kind of like Kurt russel in guardians of the galaxy 2. Like he is still a diety, but super limited. I understand now, thanks.
 
Beasty said:
I'm not going to debate with you about what the Bible says because it says a lot of things, is contradictory, and based off of stories stolen from Egypt and totally contrary to science and common sense at the most fundamental level.

So if you feel that it's contrary to what I said it is, then you're not really saying anything, feel free to believe what you want as I'm free to call it how I see it.
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Except, that's not what I asked you about. I countered your assertion that blacks are kept down by Christianity. Now, if you can't back up your assertion with anything more than conjecture and how you "feel' about religion, then you are not acting on fact. Which, as I've pointed out previously, is the exact same thing the people you make fun of do.

meowkittenmeow said:
I dunno, an all powerful being that you pray to to help you out... I just kind of figured that he/she would be able to end white supremacy. But, I kind of get it now. It’s like with superheroes. You have to right in some sort of weakness or excuse as to why they won’t fix anything.

it’s basically like back in the day, sacrificing and or orgies to get the attention of the diety, then offerings and then you can have rain for crops or whatever. So, your deity’s powers aren’t like thanos with the infinity gauntlet, he is kind of like Kurt russel in guardians of the galaxy 2. Like he is still a diety, but super limited. I understand now, thanks.
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So, basically, you just formulated how you feel, a religion you have little knowledge of, works and then chose to judge all those who believe in that religion by your feelings about the religion that you've shown you don't know that much about? That's like a Christian saying people who don't believe in God are evil. And, then when they are asked why they believe non-Christians are evil they answer with, "Because the Romans didn't believe in God and they were evil."

On the one side you two claim to be driven by facts and research. Then, on the other, you make judgments without understanding the former and not doing the latter. You guys are talking out of both sides of your mouths. What you're saying is proof that atheists can have an arrogant blind faith all their own. You're not willing to read scripture (to see what it says for yourselves). You're not willing to read up on the history of the black struggle and how Christianity was used to free us and win our civil rights. Yet, you are basically happy with spouting off "hotep-lite" proclamations about the religion and those who practice it. Different form of faith, same willful ignorance.
 
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samson1701 said:
Except, that's not what I asked you about. I countered your assertion that blacks are kept down by Christianity. Now, if you can't back up your assertion with anything more than conjecture and how you "feel' about religion, then you are not acting on fact. Which, as I've pointed out previously, is the exact same thing the people you make fun of do.



So, basically, you just formulated how you feel, a religion you have little knowledge of, works and then chose to judge all those who believe in that religion by your feelings about the religion that you've shown you don't know that much about? That's like a Christian saying people who don't believe in God are evil. And, then when they are asked why they believe non-Christians are evil they answer with, "Because the Romans didn't believe in God and they were evil."

On the one side you two claim to be driven by facts and research. Then, on the other, you make judgments without understanding the former and not doing the latter. You guys are talking out of both sides of your mouths. What you're saying is proof that atheists can have an arrogant blind faith all their own. You're not willing to read scripture (to see what it says for yourselves). You're not willing to read up on the history of the black struggle and how Christianity was used to free us and win our civil rights. Yet, you are basically happy with spouting off "hotep-lite" proclamations about the religion and those who practice it. Different form of faith, same willful ignorance.
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Where to begin...
I am very well versed in religion having a Christian father and a Jewish mother. I am also more than well aware of where many aspects of those religions derive their source material from. I, personally, have no interest in hotep or super Afrocentric thought processes. I don’t believe in flying pyramids with black people in them, nor do I believe in mythical creatures in the sky that passively watch us.

to be completely honest, I only skimmed and noticed your two statements about hoteps and not being raised with religion (both being incorrect). As far as the rest goes, I didn’t read it. I can’t take an argument about sky beings seriously. Sorry.

I also wanted to add that I watched muppet babies and Mr. rogers growing up. So, I am very well aware of make-believe and all that.
 
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Beasty said:
I'm not going to debate with you about what the Bible says because it says a lot of things, is contradictory, and based off of stories stolen from Egypt and totally contrary to science and common sense at the most fundamental level.

So if you feel that it's contrary to what I said it is, then you're not really saying anything, feel free to believe what you want as I'm free to call it how I see it.
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What super hero do you think would make for a good God?

the story wouldn’t be canon, so you have Carte Blanche on what to do with the storyline.
 
samson1701 said:
Except, that's not what I asked you about. I countered your assertion that blacks are kept down by Christianity. Now, if you can't back up your assertion with anything more than conjecture and how you "feel' about religion, then you are not acting on fact. Which, as I've pointed out previously, is the exact same thing the people you make fun of do.



So, basically, you just formulated how you feel, a religion you have little knowledge of, works and then chose to judge all those who believe in that religion by your feelings about the religion that you've shown you don't know that much about? That's like a Christian saying people who don't believe in God are evil. And, then when they are asked why they believe non-Christians are evil they answer with, "Because the Romans didn't believe in God and they were evil."

On the one side you two claim to be driven by facts and research. Then, on the other, you make judgments without understanding the former and not doing the latter. You guys are talking out of both sides of your mouths. What you're saying is proof that atheists can have an arrogant blind faith all their own. You're not willing to read scripture (to see what it says for yourselves). You're not willing to read up on the history of the black struggle and how Christianity was used to free us and win our civil rights. Yet, you are basically happy with spouting off "hotep-lite" proclamations about the religion and those who practice it. Different form of faith, same willful ignorance.
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You just demonstrated how it has hurt blacks by simply showing your tolerance for something that you admitted can philosophically justify slavery and white supremacy.

By you saying that the belief also supported freeing the slaves you've just admitted that it's contradictory as well.

You also just perfectly demonstrated how Christians deflect to other religions, you even threw salt at science.

What is there left to debate with you sir? You are the case in point.
 
meowkittenmeow said:
What super hero do you think would make for a good God?

the story wouldn’t be canon, so you have Carte Blanche on what to do with the storyline.
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It would be someone like a black Thor (I'll call him Aten) with all of the infinity stones creating the universe in the beginning. Aten marveled at previous universes that existed before ours and decided one day that he would create one himself. Our universe being the youngest of many, Aten ascended the throne ruling all the galaxies contained within. He just rips through space time when he wants.

He created all spirits in our universe with eternal conscience, so you must expand it in order to become a higher species in your afterlife. You may never even see Aten even after you have lived thousands of lives, because he is already very far ahead in the universe.

It appears that he created our universe as a closed system and lives somewhere within. It is thought that only someone with Aten's level of knowledge can bend enough space to reach an entirely different universe. Those infinity stones would probably be needed too.

There are plenty of higher beings out there kinda like Thanos but they aren't really good or bad, they are just higher. The higher beings always get more out of the universe than we will ever know as humans. Kinda like how a grasshopper will never know what it's like to have a steak. It's just not part of his reality.
 
meowkittenmeow said:
What super hero do you think would make for a good God?

the story wouldn’t be canon, so you have Carte Blanche on what to do with the storyline.
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The next level higher being has the ability to see the entire electromagnetic spectrum and hear the entire audio spectrum, while having the ability to also mute it and also morph back and forth from cold blooded to warm blooded systems. If I'm gonna live in a warm environment, I don't see the reason to burn extra calories trying to maintain a specific body temperature, seems inefficient. I would just let my body temperature match the environment, save energy, eat less and use more calories to put on mass.

Next higher level being goes into a more structured galaxy thats connected by intercontinental migration. You will have access to higher level technology that will allow you to reach different star systems such as space planes. Your species has already mastered an understanding of quantum mechanics and artificial intelligence as has developed many systems social and technical, that has fostered a functional and comfortable environment on every livable planet in the galaxy.

Signals, space planes, and people are regularly sent through spacetime to allow for transportation and communication systems that are linked from one end of the galaxy to the other.

Here people still have occasional beliefs of sorts but there are no religions or crimes and no politics in the human way of understanding politics, just functional interactions between intelligent beings. They have the same emotional capacity of humans but that section of the brain is mastered and the intellect is triple on average. Life, death and consciousness is no longer a mystery at this stage.

A question that ponders me is what would I be working on if I were at this stage of evolutionary development?
 
meowkittenmeow said:
I’m aware of Glileo as well as others. I put my trust in science. I can’t trust thousand year old religions. It’s ridiculous. I think the trauma compounded with indoctrination is what keeps black people praying at the feet of that particular white diety and that particular religion.
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That, and to some people the three scariest words in the English language are "I don't know." So many people are so terrified of uncertainty and not having all the answers that they'll look to any and every god they can think of to fill in the blanks because to them any answer is better than no answer.
 
Beasty said:
Truth.

Also people don't like to deal with not knowing.

My thing is that religions and religious people are subject to criticism just like anything else. There isn't anything beyond questioning.

This quote by Richard Feynman sums it up for me.

“I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong. I have approximate answers and possible beliefs and different degrees of uncertainty about different things, but I am not absolutely sure of anything and there are many things I don't know anything about, such as whether it means anything to ask why we're here. I don't have to know an answer. I don't feel frightened not knowing things, by being lost in a mysterious universe without any purpose, which is the way it really is as far as I can tell.”
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Damn, wish I had seen this part before I kinda went and said the exact same thing. That's what I get for tossing off a response to one of the last posts I see.
 
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Revelations 6:13

"and the stars of the sky fell to the earth like unripe figs dropping from a tree shaken by a great wind."
 
Beasty said:
The whole idea becomes stranger and weirder to me. Imagine there only being two possible places to go after earth.
Can't begin to wrap my head around that knowing what we know in 2019. Either we are just going to die or there are endless possibilities.
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What’s up, man? How about that Star Wars?
 
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