Yeah I definitely see your point. There's no simple perfect answer.
The Nerdz Lounge.
- Thread starter Ol'Skool Classic
- Start date
Well I'll DEFINITELY agree that this battle of the sexes is stupid. And unproductive. And insulting. And a waste of all our time.
Beasty
Well-Known Member
In the film he wasn't even intelligent enough to be Tony Stark's intern. He didn't have any intelligence to build up to that level. It was obvious that they had no intention of "playing up" to his intellect.
Did you see them equivocate when it came to Stark's intellect? T'Challa is supposed to be just as smart. Don't kid yourself.
The intelligent white characters didn't have to start out looking clueless. It was no point having him look completely dependent on his sister.
No point in being obtuse or intellectually dishonest about what happened in the film.
meowkittenmeow
Well-Known Member
Well, it’s not canon, and T’Challa opened up his nation only for it to get demolished. He isn’t without his mistakes. And as far as black characters in film and television, there are plenty of “can do it all” black women, there are not so many black men.
That being said, his comment was in reference to me elaborating canon, and not saying anything about the “black women can do all and fix everything” narrative in film and television.
meowkittenmeow
Well-Known Member
I’d pass on that film.
meowkittenmeow
Well-Known Member
They dumb us down in order to uplift black women. It happens. I saw a lot of brothas talking about that with the first BP movie. It is what it is. The movie wasn’t really about representation or anything, it was just about money as are all of the other MCU movies. They went with Iron Man first because kids liked playing with the Iron Man toy the most. Not much to be done here. His death is a horrible loss, but I wasn’t overly excited for phase 4. I hope it’s good, but with the pandering... I’m rather concerned.
Well they did mention that he designed his own Black Panther suit, so he's clearly meant to be intelligent. But you definitely have a point. But with Tony Stark leaving the MCU, I think there may have been too for him to take the "resident genius" role. But Shuri (or Reed Richards or Bruce Banner or even Hank McCoy) may have already been the plan for that.
I think I understand your thinking, but we disagree here. Yes, Disney was chiefly concerned about money. That's capitalism. But the decision to lean into the representation angle (instead of just doing it the way it's always been done) didn't have to be made. They could've gone a completely different direction in pursuit of the bottom line. I'm not saying they're altruistic at all. But they did break new ground.
By your logic you can't attribute any motive to any corporate decision other than profit. What decision could they possibly ever make that wouldn't be pandering to somebody? The entire purpose of any company is to profit. Therefore doesn't every company have to "pander" to its customers in every instance?
Maybe I'm missing what you mean by pandering.
Beasty
Well-Known Member
There is no "resident genius" Banner is a genius too. Not to mention the other groups of heros, I think Mr. Fantastic is smarter than all of them.
Do you even Marvel?
I remember him walking into what is supposed to be his lab and asking Shuri "what is this." A clear indication that he had nothing to do with the tech being used and he had no idea what it was.
That's like me telling you my homie is brilliant but I talk to him like he is retarded. What are you going to believe, my words or my behavior?
Mentioning him doing something doesn't do much. It's a movie, we pay to see him be intelligent.
meowkittenmeow
Well-Known Member
This is known as a strawman fallacy, compounded with a single cause in order to oversimplify the argument and therefore win an argument that wasn’t actually there(as oppose to the initial argument). Not a fan of it, bud.
Here is what happens, those who are in charge of marketing, as well as brainstorming, meet with analysts. They inform those in charge of currenr trends and how those trends may cause a demand for a specific type of product. That product caters to a potential consumer/ audience in order to increase sales. The pandering exists due to the trend of online social justice via social media (which is the current trend and was back then). Pandering, seeks to appease a specific group. In the case of capitalism, it seeks to appease that group to develop a relationship of that group coming back for more due to potential representation. This was shown with Captain Marvel, and yes, Black Panther. The trends provided them with potentially beneficial outcomes, so they bet on it.
Disney CEO Bob Iger Reveals 'Black Panther' and 'Captain Marvel' Almost Didn't Happen
https://www.menshealth.com/entertainment/a29225846/black-panther-captain-marvel-almost-didnt-happen/
I’d keep going into more detail, but this is the nerds lounge and people get upset when we delve into critical thinking, in regards to how hollywood decides to make films and black male characters.
I will say, that your confusion is in regards to me saying that the film isn’t about representation, when I am saying it isn’t about representation to the company, it’s about pandering for extra cash. It is, however, about representation to the actors, film crew, director, and audience, which isn’t what I was talking about.
The Dark King
Well-Known Member
First and foremost I think there's room for everyone but lets be fair black men rarely get to express masculine energy that's not in service to white people or black women. It was very meaningful for black men and boys to see a depiction of themselves where we aren't being mutilated by someone or using our death or oppression as a jumping off point for black female greatness ie Black Lightning and The Watchman. If they replace black panther with a woman I will not pay to watch it period the end. They have other material they can use. There's Storm the original Captain Marvel
I'm sure there's others but I can't think of any off the top of my head. All I'm saying is can we have something where we celebrate black men without tragedy forcing us to disappear and making black women powerful because of our absence.
darkcurry
Well-Known Member
Agreed. But the ones who most of these studios pander to are everyone while straight black masculine black men are at thought about lastly. That's why we should keep showing support to those times when we do see it. Not just with BP or other comic book characters. Show love for other black masculine characters like we do T'Challa.
But I don't think they should replace BP with her. I'm more of less saying BP 2 would make sense to go in that direction if they choose NOT to replace Chadwick with another actor playing the role of T'Challa. I think the third installment should probably be about Chanda and they end it there and in phase 4 just bring in another Powerful Black character like The Blue Marvel who's history and ties and his very good story that can be adpated into the MCU... and kind of replace him that way. That's just my opinion. Adam Brashear's story and powers are VASTLY underrated and can be turned into GOLD at the box office.
Ol'Skool Classic
Well-Known Member
Amazon Prime Video's critically-acclaimed superhero satire The Boys has released its first three episodes one day early.
TRANSLATION : The Shit Is On RIGHT NOW .
You're welcome .
TRANSLATION : The Shit Is On RIGHT NOW .
You're welcome .
SilverSmith
Well-Known Member
Fans: "That's it? The party's over?"
DC Comics: "The party's not over."
DC Comics: "The party's not over."
darkcurry
Well-Known Member
Finished watching the first 3 episodes of The Boys and right out the gate it was Bang, Bang, BANG!
What they had racist site do at the end of episode 3 controversial and deep as hell which means they are all in with the comic character.
Only three episodes got released and more next friday so there won't be any binging.
The Boys show you just how easily people are mislead and can be in the dark about things. They highlighted that in the first 3 episodes just how mainstream heroes super or not are just really playing the part. A big show for the sheep err... people. But even the the actual "heroes" are pretty fucked up even though they are trying to be and do better. I think the moral of this show is that humans are naturally incapable of being heroes OR the term hero is a part of the science fiction and fantasy of entertainment. I noticed that subtly in The Dark Knight trilogy as well.
What they had racist site do at the end of episode 3 controversial and deep as hell which means they are all in with the comic character.
Only three episodes got released and more next friday so there won't be any binging.
The Boys show you just how easily people are mislead and can be in the dark about things. They highlighted that in the first 3 episodes just how mainstream heroes super or not are just really playing the part. A big show for the sheep err... people. But even the the actual "heroes" are pretty fucked up even though they are trying to be and do better. I think the moral of this show is that humans are naturally incapable of being heroes OR the term hero is a part of the science fiction and fantasy of entertainment. I noticed that subtly in The Dark Knight trilogy as well.
Ol'Skool Classic
Well-Known Member
And that's why both Chris Nolan's & Zack Snyder's takes on the DC characters shouldn't be used as the template for a live action DC Cinematic Universe, because the DC Universe characters are all idealized archetypes of superheroes. They leaned to much into the real world for both takes. You can tell dark toned stories with the characters themselves shouldn't be dark unless it an Elseworld/Multiverse take on the characters.
darkcurry
Well-Known Member
Shuri Will Reportedly Become The MCU’s New Black Panther
https://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/shuri-reportedly-mcus-black-panther/
Many of the fans under this tweet are in an agreement that Chadwick shouldn't be recasted so this is probably the move they're going to make even though it is just reports.
https://twitter.com/MCU_Fanatics/status/1302329404509556741
https://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/shuri-reportedly-mcus-black-panther/
Many of the fans under this tweet are in an agreement that Chadwick shouldn't be recasted so this is probably the move they're going to make even though it is just reports.
https://twitter.com/MCU_Fanatics/status/1302329404509556741
Thump
Well-Known Member
Shuri Will Reportedly Become The MCU’s New Black Panther
https://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/shuri-reportedly-mcus-black-panther/
Many of the fans under this tweet are in an agreement that Chadwick shouldn't be recasted so this is probably the move they're going to make even though it is just reports.
https://twitter.com/MCU_Fanatics/status/1302329404509556741
This could be true but the website this comes from literally makes shit up all the time and reports it as news. So take this report with a hefty grain of salt.
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Ol'Skool Classic
Well-Known Member
THIS.
Chadwick Boseman hasn't been laid to rest yet so even if Shuri becoming the new Black Panther, Marvel Studios isn't going to be that crass & disrespectful to that man by putting out their future plans for Black Panther until they actually decide exactly what the story for a Black Panther sequel minus Boseman is properly planned out. Especially if Ryan Coogler is still attached to any sequels.