The Nerdz Lounge.
- Thread starter Ol'Skool Classic
- Start date
Thump
Well-Known Member
You are right about it being a poor strategy. The people who own the rights to old legacy characters and intellectual properties are betting that the old fans are locked-in. But if the diminishing returns of the Star Wars movies have taught us anything it's that old fans will walk away if the thing they loved becomes unrecognizable. New fans are fickle and will abandon a thing as fast as they found it. The old fans what made things popular enough to be what they end up becoming.
The hateful and toxic white boy fans are just the ones people pay the most attention to because the "super-woke" always like to mask any legitimate criticism by painting all their critics as toxic racists and sexists. The weird and ironic thing about lumping displeased fans in with those toxic white incels is that it is a form of racism and sexism in-and-of-itself. It is an eraser of the feelings of black/brown and female fans who may have legitimate issues with the direction the thing they are fans of is going. It reminds me of the backlash to the backlash from The Last Jedi, I remember reading article after article of people defending that movie by implying (and outright saying) that all the people who hated it were just mad about the Black, Asian, heroes and "strong" female protagonist. I personally left comments on a few articles explaining why I didn't like it and as a black man, it had nothing to do with the lack of white male heroes.
The truth is, there are a lot of melanin-rich and/or vagina-equipped fans who have legitimate issues with their old favorite shows, movies, comics, etc. ignoring them in order to go after the elusive "new fans."
Ol'Skool Classic
Well-Known Member
How are they being "ignored" when they are acting as if they are entitled to other peoples creative efforts? Because at the end of the day that's what it boils down to.
Thump
Well-Known Member
If a person’s creative effort is sitting on a sketch pad or on their personal laptop they have every right to tell other people to piss off if they don’t like it, but once they put it out into the public and ask for financial reimbursement they are in a pseudo contract with the people who are putting money into their pockets.
Ol'Skool Classic
Well-Known Member
What's this pseudo contract? Either you enjoy someone's creative endeavors or you don't. If their creative efforts stop being entertaining to you, then check out. What's up with all this Annie Wilkes bullshit???
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Thump
Well-Known Member
Exactly, The Entertainment industry is a business and the fans are their customers, they need each other (the contract) to exist. When a business chooses to disregard what their loyal customers have come to expect in order to get new customers, they are in danger of losing the people that made their business successful. I’m sure if you had a store you enjoyed shopping at and they started slacking to the point that you no longer enjoy shopping there, you may lament it’s downfall and you may even say something to the owners of the store. Which is no different from commenting at places like this about our displeasure of things we used to like.
The Dark King
Well-Known Member
Or people like me who grew up with this and supported it since they were able to use allowance and Christmas money to buy comics. People like me are why these things are a huge deal now. And it's dismissive af to assume anyone who would dare critique it are part of the incel crowd. I don't want a race bent Superman and I'm a black man. Give Val Zod give me Icon we don't need to race bend Superman its plain lazy.
Ol'Skool Classic
Well-Known Member
Difference is if/when someone or something stops providing me the service I like, I stop frequenting their business. I don't start acting as if I'm still entitled to their services as if me all by my lonesome was the one who kept them around when they provided the service I liked. Entertainment fans act as if the entertainment industry is producing some life or death product and they themselves have direct input into it. It's hit or miss with everything the entertainment industry puts out. Even with things they believe SHOULD BE a guaranteed hit there is no telling how it will be received.
samson1701
Well-Known Member
I think this is where I differ from you guys. I have zero problem race bending characters who’s main traits aren’t tied in their ethnicity.
Example: Steve Rogers has to be white. No way a black man, in America, could have been that Captain America in WW2. Blacks Panther must be a black African because there’s no way an unconquered African tribe would be led by a European. But, Tony Stark, in 2021, could be any race. Same as Bruce Wayne or Clark Kent.
Race bending towards minorities, especially blacks, is something I want to see.
Thump
Well-Known Member
It's true some fans become toxic, but a lot are just passionate, and the truth is that the entertainment industry wouldn't have it any other way. Because the entertainment industry thrives on fandoms, it's their bread and butter. Fans are the ones filling stadiums, fans are the ones who go back and see movies 4 times, fans are the ones who buy the $40 t-shirts, fans are the ones that pay $19 per month to streaming services to binge-watch the next big TV show.
The fans that complain about their beloved show/movie etc. Don't usually get too riled up when a bad attempt is made at producing a new version of whatever it is. They usually only get really mad when the people in charge of it disregard the core idea/tone of the thing they love. For example, most Star Trek fans didn't really gravitate to Star Trek: Enterprise, but they still recognized it as a legitimate attempt to continue the Trek legacy. Those same Trek fans seem to really hate Star Trek: Discovery and Star Trek: Picard because both of those shows have said "the hell" with continuity and established tone. The thing is making fans happy isn't as much of a crapshoot as we might think, just look at the success of the Mandalorian, it gave fans "newness" while maintaining the core ideas of Star Wars and almost everybody loves it.
Ol'Skool Classic
Well-Known Member
I get being passionate about something but I don't get the "gatekeeping" & obsessive possessiveness when it comes to nerd shit. If someone had a direct hand in the creation of something I can understand it but coming into something as a fan, especially when its new, I don't get the whole getting upset at pandering to certain groups in order to expand a fanbase. Especially for things that have been around for decades & as the older fan base starts to die off. Too much nerd level shit out there now to be gatekeeping it unless you are getting direct cut of profits made off it IMO.
Thump
Well-Known Member
I respect your opinion, but it feels like you are combining enthusiastic fans with toxic fans. Enthusiastic fans who don't like it when pandering to new fans become the driving force behind creative choices are not gatekeepers. They just want the thing they used to like to stay somewhat recognizable to them. When that thing goes too far afield most fans (like myself) just move on, but there is nothing wrong with being upset that the thing you used to like has changed so much that you don't like it anymore.
Ol'Skool Classic
Well-Known Member
But that's the rub. Everything changes or it goes away only to be re-worked for new fanbase or generation. The things that people are fans of usually are still around in the same form that were when people became fans no matter what the medium. So are they upset that they are no longer the prime audience that's being catered to?
I guess I view this in a completely different way than the majority of other nerds on this site because I have kids & bonded with & eventually passed along my love of nerd things to them as they were growing up. They are now grown and in college with each having a particular nerdy interest they are fan of. Son is a comics & anime head & daughter is into all things sci-fi & horror related. I'm into all of it so don't view any of it as strictly "my fandom" but our shared fandom.
The Dark King
Well-Known Member
Then just use different characters. I would hate a white Blade. It's incredibly lazy to race bend
SilverSmith
Well-Known Member
Godzilla vs. Kong - "Salvation"
samson1701
Well-Known Member
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Thump
Well-Known Member
So I just made it through the 4-hour long recut Justice League. It wasn't terrible but it was very obviously a Zack Snyder movie
The movie should really be called Cyborg and Friends because he is clearly the heart and soul of the movie. It's shocking how much he was cut from Joss Whedon's version. As for the rest of the movie, it was better than the previous version but since I'm just not a fan of Zack Snyder's style it still wasn't my cup of tea, as I'd expect from ZS, there were far too many shots that looked like a perfume commercial. I did like how they seemed much more like a team in this version I also loved the Wonder Woman fight at the bank the way that was filmed really translated her power to the screen. All the characters were done right except for Batman, his characterization seemed way off, Batman is usually the most calm-and-collected person in any room even standing next to 5000-year-old Amazons and aliens with super brains, but in this movie, he looked befuddled and tentative far too much. The one thing about the movie that I really liked was the "nightmare" near the end. I kind of hope DC doesn't just ignore that story thread.
samson1701
Well-Known Member
I’d gladly swap out Blade for Superman, Batman or Iron Man. I guess, I just don’t understand why it’s lazy. Those heroes could be any man. There is nothing about them dependent on race.
Is anyone really surprised from what I can tell they cut as much material for Black characters as possible. COnsidering how much work Geoff Johns did to kneecap John Stewart after Justice League (UNlimited) I am not shocked. And well we know Ray and Joss hated each other. They also cut the Atom who is Asian. Still it kinda makes sense to focus on Cyborg since he doesn't have a solo movie and most don't know much about him outside of Teen Titans Show. U usually try to focus on the newest or youngest or least experienced or most unknown character in these type of team up movies cause they provide a good viewpoint.
Still looking at Comics I dont think Cyborg will be Prime Time unless the Snyder Verse Continues. Cyborg is too linked to the Titans to be the main Black lead and you know is eunuch. Also his tech focus hurts Batman who in Justice League stuff can only do detective stuff and tech stuff. And most Justice League stories dont have much detective stuff going on, enemies tend to be obvious. Much Better going with John Stewart unless u want to Racebend Superman for Black Male Lead.
Here is ur best options if not racebending
Adult: John Stewart (BM), Vixen (BF), Atom (AM), Katana or Dr. Light (AF), Jessica Cruz (Latina), Latino ???? no good option
Teen: Static (BM), ???? Rocket (BF), Blue Beetle (Latino), ???? Aquagirl (Latina), Cass Cain (AF), ????? Asian Male no good option.
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The Dark King
Well-Known Member
That's the thing no they can't there are certain things unique to them. Then while we're at let's have Superman grow up in Tampa Florida or have Batman protect Roswell New Mexico there are certain things attached to your identity that forms the character. And again it's not like I'm saying let's not have black or gay characters just use those that exist or create new ones. Like I said Val Zod exists why can't we follow his story?