Attraction to Black Men = Perversion?

[Mrmike757]

I have the same fears that you do and so I have kept it a "secret"
But the same actually goes for guys as well.

I have had sex with guys that were into that as well. Playing the pervert racial card and stuff like that.
It became very difficult to answer to the question "what's your kind of man", even more so to a black guy

Yea I often keep my attractions a secret or ambiguous. Mainly around family tho.

 

[The Dark King]

Same here, although after a while of knowing me personally, many black women friends generally get it and understand that I'm not the type of guy they are interested in anyway. If they are interested, they're the type of black women who have also dated people of different races, so they don't carry around race-based baggage.

It is only an issue if they want us and even if they don't want us. Just as a data point to bring up

 

[orejon4]

It is only an issue if they want us and even if they don't want us. Just as a data point to bring up

Yes, exactly. People who are predisposed to not like me use it as a stick to beat me with, but usually lose interest when they see that I don’t care. It’s a rhetorical device to beat you with when they’re losing a debate or something and it’s a convenient delegitimizer to undermine a superior argument or position.

 

[The Dark King]

Yes, exactly. People who are predisposed to not like me use it as a stick to beat me with, but usually lose interest when they see that I don’t care. It’s a rhetorical device to beat you with when they’re losing a debate or something and it’s a convenient delegitimizer to undermine a superior argument or position.

Honestly very few black women didn't have much interest in me until my career situation changed and especially when I met my current partner. Certain brands translate universally and others to niche groups. My brand mostly gets attention from nerdy women who aren't really into the concept of swag. I think most of the guys who date interracially fall into that category if you're talking about every day regular non famous dudes. They don't want those kind of men anyway. The problem is the men they actually do want when given the choice choose differently

 

[orejon4]

I'm similarly situated. Good thing we don't live in the same town or we'd be competing for the same women, lol.

 

[orejon4]

I was just typing some remarks about essentializing each other in another thread that touch on this same theme. It dealt with what forums members use to discuss wwbm issues.

 

[bodhesatva]

I've said this before in a different thread, but I always feel there is a huge difference between "I have a preference for black men" or even "I have a strong preference for black men" on one hand, and "I will only date black men" on the other.

Just swap "black men" out for some other physical feature, like blue eyes. "I have a preference for guys with blue eyes" does not sound weird at all to me, and is totally fine, but "I will only date men with blue eyes" sounds much stranger. I wouldn't say it's impossible for that to be healthy, but it raises red flags, for me at least.

And the same goes for you guys in here as well. It's great to prefer white women -- it worked out for me! -- but if you never find black/asian/indian women attractive and would never ever date them? That would suggest some sort of mental block, to me.

 

[qaz1]

I've said this before in a different thread, but I always feel there is a huge difference between "I have a preference for black men" or even "I have a strong preference for black men" on one hand, and "I will only date black men" on the other.

Just swap "black men" out for some other physical feature, like blue eyes. "I have a preference for guys with blue eyes" does not sound weird at all to me, and is totally fine, but "I will only date men with blue eyes" sounds much stranger. I wouldn't say it's impossible for that to be healthy, but it raises red flags, for me at least.

And the same goes for you guys in here as well. It's great to prefer white women -- it worked out for me! -- but if you never find black/asian/indian women attractive and would never ever date them? That would suggest some sort of mental block, to me.

EXACTLY. I don't remember when I've agreed with a post on this site more than this one.

The dead giveaway that someone has an "issue" with race/color is when what should be a preference at most turns out to be a make-or-break requirement. If the only thing you have to know about a person to completely disqualify them from your dating pool is their race/color, you're either prejudiced or overly affected by someone else's prejudice. Or both.

People are way too unwilling to examine where they get their "preferences." It's not as simple and innocent as "that's just what I like!" That stuff comes from a negative place way too often. Whether it's strong "positive" (like fetishism) or negative (like revulsion), an extreme preference almost always points to something underlying and usually unexamined.

That's your free unsolicited social psychology for the day lol

 

[missshyness]

EXACTLY. I don't remember when I've agreed with a post on this site more than this one.

The dead giveaway that someone has an "issue" with race/color is when what should be a preference at most turns out to be a make-or-break requirement. If the only thing you have to know about a person to completely disqualify them from your dating pool is their race/color, you're either prejudiced or overly affected by someone else's prejudice. Or both.

People are way too unwilling to examine where they get their "preferences." It's not as simple and innocent as "that's just what I like!" That stuff comes from a negative place way too often. Whether it's strong "positive" (like fetishism) or negative (like revulsion), an extreme preference almost always points to something underlying and usually unexamined.

That's your free unsolicited social psychology for the day lol

I see this point, but nobody has a right to pass judgement on who someone is willing or not willing to date regardless. I have seen this plenty with different things; skinny vs bigger women etc,. If say someone stated they only want to date, such and such, and others question them, to the point that they might feel bad for this, and go ahead and date someone out of pressure to be more open, would this be fair to them, and the other party that is not who they want?

I for one would not feel so great being someone's second choice, or knowing they are dating me because their friends or family have guilted them into it. I would want someone who is completely and genuinely attracted to me, and if they only want a certain type of woman, then I feel they have a right to it, even if I might be frustrated, hurt, and however odd or wrong it might be to me, and I think there are guys who would feel the same.

I kind of went through this with a guy, we kind of played cat and mouse at university, he was friendly, but would turn away from me sometimes, other times he would smile. After multiple attempts to talk to him, I gave up, figured he did not like me, I was bugging him, and or did not want to know me. Then one day after a presentation I gave in class, he must have liked it, and friended me on facebook.

Over the past couple of years we chatted every so often, but alas, he married a woman of his own kind and now has a kid. I went back and forth in my feelings; from happy for him, and a bit sad, to sometimes bitter, I know that sounds wrong, but I guess I was foolish and thought there was a possibility.

How that little story relates is, even if in some peoples eyes I am desirable to date, I must have not been his cup of tea, we or he missed out, but for what ever reason, even if it might not seem right, I know logically he had a right to not be interested in me, however painful it is for me.

In addition, people from some cultures have restrictions and taboos on who they can date and marry, and I suspect this might have been the case with the guy I liked, he was Ethiopian, although he seemed American, I did not know at first, he spoke English and did not have an accent etc, and had been in the military so he seemed approachable, and open, or so it seemed to begin with.

 

[qaz1]

I see this point, but nobody has a right to pass judgement on who someone is willing or not willing to date regardless. I have seen this plenty with different things; skinny vs bigger women etc,. If say someone stated they only want to date, such and such, and others question them, to the point that they might feel bad for this, and go ahead and date someone out of pressure to be more open, would this be fair to them, and the other party that is not who they want?

I for one would not feel so great being someone's second choice, or knowing they are dating me because their friends or family have guilted them into it. I would want someone who is completely and genuinely attracted to me, and if they only want a certain type of woman, then I feel they have a right to it, even if I might be frustrated, hurt, and however odd or wrong it might be to me, and I think there are guys who would feel the same.

I kind of went through this with a guy, we kind of played cat and mouse at university, he was friendly, but would turn away from me sometimes, other times he would smile. After multiple attempts to talk to him, I gave up, figured he did not like me, I was bugging him, and or did not want to know me. Then one day after a presentation I gave in class, he must have liked it, and friended me on facebook.

Over the past couple of years we chatted every so often, but alas, he married a woman of his own kind and now has a kid. I went back and forth in my feelings; from happy for him, and a bit sad, to sometimes bitter, I know that sounds wrong, but I guess I was foolish and thought there was a possibility.

How that little story relates is, even if in some peoples eyes I am desirable to date, I must have not been his cup of tea, we or he missed out, but for what ever reason, even if it might not seem right, I know logically he had a right to not be interested in me, however painful it is for me.

In addition, people from some cultures have restrictions and taboos on who they can date and marry, and I suspect this might have been the case with the guy I liked, he was Ethiopian, although he seemed American, I did not know at first, he spoke English and did not have an accent etc, and had been in the military so he seemed approachable, and open, or so it seemed to begin with.

I don't recommend passing judgment as a general rule. My point was merely that peoples' preferences are often rooted in the negative, which often includes unconfronted racial prejudice. That fact doesn't mean that anyone has a right to demand any person date any other person. My ideal would be that people simply examine themselves and their motives a little more deeply (myself included)

 

[missshyness]

I don't recommend passing judgment as a general rule. My point was merely that peoples' preferences are often rooted in the negative, which often includes unconfronted racial prejudice. That fact doesn't mean that anyone has a right to demand any person date any other person. My ideal would be that people simply examine themselves and their motives a little more deeply (myself included)

That might be, but I don't think that is the case every single time, you cant get into everybody's head, hearts, and read their minds and motives, and know for sure. But I do think it is a good idea for all to look at themselves, and I guess that would go for people who might only date their own kind too.

So if a woman was or stated she is mostly attracted to black men, you would automatically suspect her? For me, it is not something I have had total control over, similar to gays, and lesbians, they did not choose their orientation, it chose them. I can’t just say to myself, hey my preference is rooted in the bad, therefore, I must turn it off and not like or date black men. I have asked myself, tried to analyze it I am not doing it out of some weird thing or prejudice, at least I hope, it just takes my mind around in circles, and is not productive, so for now, it just is what it is, and I have to just accept it.

All this has and contributes to why I don't reveal my preference much, because there are those who would question me, put words in my mouth and say I am racist, and I find that insulting. It would make me lost interest fairly soon if I felt I had to defend my preference to an individual black guy. By making it to be some kind of deep seated prejudice, it is making a preference taboo, like my preference is not natural, of which it does feel for me.

If I could turn my preference off, I might do so, because of the trouble it would bring me like this, what feels right and innocent gets twisted into something must be bad and twisted somehow. On the other hand, trying to change how I feel to be politically correct, or to seem right to those who question, also does not feel genuine and almost makes it feel like prejudiced like I am doing things for others, as opposed to just going with my own feelings.

Maybe I might say, so what? I like what I like, and if everyone else including the black guy I might like has a problem with it, so be it, and if he has a problem with it, I would just say goodby to him, peace out and part ways.

I do also think we must sometimes take things at face value, go with the flow and trust ourselves.

So dear qaz, have you looked at yourself and found answers? is there some deep rooted racism going on? maybe you do not have preferences? or if you do, do you feel bad about them? do you feel you can or must change yours? if so would you? are you working on not having preferences?

 

[qaz1]

That might be, but I don't think that is the case every single time, you cant get into everybody's head, hearts, and read their minds and motives, and know for sure. But I do think it is a good idea for all to look at themselves, and I guess that would go for people who might only date their own kind too.

Of course I can't. That's part of the reason I don't recommend passing judgement. And when I mentioned that everyone should examine their motives, I meant it in a broader sense. People generally suck at productive self-reflection even when it doesn't relate to dating and marriage.

So if a woman was or stated she is mostly attracted to black men, you would automatically suspect her? For me, it is not something I have had total control over, similar to gays, and lesbians, they did not choose their orientation, it chose them. I can’t just say to myself, hey my preference is rooted in the bad, therefore, I must turn it off and not like or date black men. I have asked myself, tried to analyze it I am not doing it out of some weird thing or prejudice, at least I hope, it just takes my mind around in circles, and is not productive, so for now, it just is what it is, and I have to just accept it.

No, I wouldn't automatically suspect her. By that logic, I'd have to suspect everyone on the site lol. Often a preference is just a preference.

And of course you don't have total control over it. No one has total control over their preferences. If we had total control over our preferences, they wouldn't be preferences; they would be choices. What we do have some control over is how much influence negative assumptions and mental models have on our preferences.

Here's an overly simplified example: there's clear difference between a white guy who, if he had his pick, would date Asian women (an innocent preference) and a white guy with "Asian fever" (a toxic fetish).

But I strongly disagree with conflating racial dating preference with sexual orientation. No one, absolutely no one, is born with a natural, predetermined romantic preference for any particular race or color. It simply doesn't happen (technically speaking, race doesn't even exist; it's socially constructed and not biologically innate).

All this has and contributes to why I don't reveal my preference much, because there are those who would question me, put words in my mouth and say I am racist, and I find that insulting. It would make me lost interest fairly soon if I felt I had to defend my preference to an individual black guy. By making it to be some kind of deep seated prejudice, it is making a preference taboo, like my preference is not natural, of which it does feel for me.

I don't mean to insult you. I certainly am not calling you racist or meaning to put words in your mouth. Do you have any "negative" contributors to your racial dating preference? I have no clue. I don't even know you. That, again, is a good reason for not judging you or your preferences.

But maybe ask yourself this: Would you, hypothetically, ever date a non-black guy under any circumstances? Or does the fact that a man isn't black completely disqualify him without your ever needing or wanting to know anything more about him (such as his intelligence, physical attractiveness, character/integrity, social standing, and on and on)?
If the ONLY thing you have to know about a man is that he isn't black, I'd tend to think it's worth asking why. I have no clue if that applies to you.

(BTW, I fully recognize that you have NO obligation to do anything I'm suggesting. Live your life. I'm just writing all this since you asked more about my position. )

If I could turn my preference off, I might do so, because of the trouble it would bring me like this, what feels right and innocent gets twisted into something must be bad and twisted somehow. On the other hand, trying to change how I feel to be politically correct, or to seem right to those who question, also does not feel genuine and almost makes it feel like prejudiced like I am doing things for others, as opposed to just going with my own feelings.

That would be tragic. No one (here, at least) is looking down on your preference. I'm sorry for making you feel judged. That was never my intent.

And no, you shouldn't attempt to alter your preference in the name of political correctness. I actually don't think anyone should attempt to change their preferences at all. What I do advocate examining--and possibly changing--is negative beliefs that influence preferences.

That means IF (theoretically) you did have negative underlying reasons for your preferences, I'd argue you (and society overall) would be better off if you addressed THOSE UNDERLYING REASONS. But so I'm perfectly clear, I don't have reason to believe you are in that position. Like I said, I don't even know you.

Maybe I might say, so what? I like what I like, and if everyone else including the black guy I might like has a problem with it, so be it, and if he has a problem with it, I would just say goodby to him, peace out and part ways.

I do also think we must sometimes take things at face value, go with the flow and trust ourselves.

Sounds reasonable to me. I obviously think it's worth asking WHY you like what you like and dislike what you dislike. But once you find a solid answer, move on. You're obviously free to disagree with my position.

So dear qaz, have you looked at yourself and found answers? is there some deep rooted racism going on? maybe you do not have preferences? or if you do, do you feel bad about them? do you feel you can or must change yours? if so would you? are you working on not having preferences?

LOL! Believe me, I have examined plenty lol.
I don't really have much of a racial preference in dating, though I obviously think highly of white women. No, I don't think my attraction to white women is rooted in racism (or an inferiority complex or competitiveness with white men or any other problematic reasons I've heard). If I thought a preference had negative underpinnings, I would work to address those negative underpinnings. The preference would take care of itself. If the preference remained after rooting out the negativity, then the preference wouldn't be based on negativity. There would be no reason to change it. I hope that makes sense.

Let me say something else, @missshyness . THANK YOU SO MUCH for speaking up and clarifying your position (and challenging mine), especially in such a constructive manner. I'm glad to have discussions like these with reasonable people.

 

[missshyness]

Of course I can't. That's part of the reason I don't recommend passing judgement. And when I mentioned that everyone should examine their motives, I meant it in a broader sense. People generally suck at productive self-reflection even when it doesn't relate to dating and marriage.

No, I wouldn't automatically suspect her. By that logic, I'd have to suspect everyone on the site lol. Often a preference is just a preference.

And of course you don't have total control over it. No one has total control over their preferences. If we had total control over our preferences, they wouldn't be preferences; they would be choices. What we do have some control over is how much influence negative assumptions and mental models have on our preferences.

Here's an overly simplified example: there's clear difference between a white guy who, if he had his pick, would date Asian women (an innocent preference) and a white guy with "Asian fever" (a toxic fetish).

But I strongly disagree with conflating racial dating preference with sexual orientation. No one, absolutely no one, is born with a natural, predetermined romantic preference for any particular race or color. It simply doesn't happen (technically speaking, race doesn't even exist; it's socially constructed and not biologically innate).

I don't mean to insult you. I certainly am not calling you racist or meaning to put words in your mouth. Do you have any "negative" contributors to your racial dating preference? I have no clue. I don't even know you. That, again, is a good reason for not judging you or your preferences.

But maybe ask yourself this: Would you, hypothetically, ever date a non-black guy under any circumstances? Or does the fact that a man isn't black completely disqualify him without your ever needing or wanting to know anything more about him (such as his intelligence, physical attractiveness, character/integrity, social standing, and on and on)?
If the ONLY thing you have to know about a man is that he isn't black, I'd tend to think it's worth asking why. I have no clue if that applies to you.

(BTW, I fully recognize that you have NO obligation to do anything I'm suggesting. Live your life. I'm just writing all this since you asked more about my position. )

That would be tragic. No one (here, at least) is looking down on your preference. I'm sorry for making you feel judged. That was never my intent.

And no, you shouldn't attempt to alter your preference in the name of political correctness. I actually don't think anyone should attempt to change their preferences at all. What I do advocate examining--and possibly changing--is negative beliefs that influence preferences.

That means IF (theoretically) you did have negative underlying reasons for your preferences, I'd argue you (and society overall) would be better off if you addressed THOSE UNDERLYING REASONS. But so I'm perfectly clear, I don't have reason to believe you are in that position. Like I said, I don't even know you.

Sounds reasonable to me. I obviously think it's worth asking WHY you like what you like and dislike what you dislike. But once you find a solid answer, move on. You're obviously free to disagree with my position.

LOL! Believe me, I have examined plenty lol.
I don't really have much of a racial preference in dating, though I obviously think highly of white women. No, I don't think my attraction to white women is rooted in racism (or an inferiority complex or competitiveness with white men or any other problematic reasons I've heard). If I thought a preference had negative underpinnings, I would work to address those negative underpinnings. The preference would take care of itself. If the preference remained after rooting out the negativity, then the preference wouldn't be based on negativity. There would be no reason to change it. I hope that makes sense.

Let me say something else, @missshyness . THANK YOU SO MUCH for speaking up and clarifying your position (and challenging mine), especially in such a constructive manner. I'm glad to have discussions like these with reasonable people.

Ok, I admit, I have been afraid to look at myself, and I have many times like you. I will get that flashlight and climb up into my mental attic, those dark corners of the mind, and have a look around for those “ negative racist rat underpinnings” or make sure there are none.

What I have found so far is, that my preference is not based on any BBC stuff, or thug stereotypes, like some guys have expressed as some negative things some white women have with. I dont set out and think, hey I will prefer black guys to rebel or be fashionable. These are some of the negative things I have read that were mentioned.

For me, it is a combination of things, and I dont find every single black equally attractive just because he is black, if that makes sense. There is skin color, physique, smile, eyes, voice, and of course his temperament and personality, a combination of things unique to each guy. This would go for any guy. If I learn he has say hit a women, this is a big thumbs down, his stock will drop so fast and I am out, no matter if he is the most beautiful guy physically. Likewise, if he opens his gorgeous mouth and spews any bigotry, sexism and ignorance, brags excessively, is cruel to animals, substance abuse, tells lies, baby mama drama, serious untreated mental issues, wants just a woman to cook, clean and sire a handful of kids, is a religious zealot, poor hygiene, and is in general violent and a maniac, etc, I am also out. Good looks only go so far, they are like the difference between a hollow candy, and a solid candy. Does this sound legit? am I suspect now?

Of course I am aware that racial preference is not just like sexual orientation and are not the same as is pointed out, and I feel bad for that, I meant it feels this way, it was the best way I could describe that lack of control over my preference part. Thanks for pointing that out, and I will be more careful there, as I could upset any of my gay or lesbian friends on that, that is their lived experience all their lives, and I have not gone through that, I see that; there is a big difference, and would be insulting of me to say they are the same.

I would go on dates with other guys, depending on various things, but at some point if I am not feeling it, it would not be fair to them or me to continue just to be politically correct. I can see attractive men of all races, but it is hard to explain this, there is that it factor, that pull for me that gets to me. I can see a guys appeal, and acknowledge it, but there is not that pull for me personally if that makes sense, and I know it when I feel it, and it usually something that happens right away. To think of it, I have been attracted to men darker than me for a long time, but it has gone from medium dark, to dark like black guys. I have read this from some of the male members here, where they began liking medium skinned women, and then found themselves liking white women. I also think some people have a lower threshold of attraction in general, I seem to have a higher one, in general, it takes a few things for me to feel very attracted to a guy, but when I do, it can be intense, I hope that does not sound crazy.

From a biological standpoint, and I have mentioned before, we humans share 99% of the same dna, and some scientists have said there are just two broad human races; caucasian, which includes, white, middle eastern, and black,. The other race is then asian. So if I go by that, than technically my preference for black men is actually preferring my own race.

I hope that all makes sense, that was a little difficult, I have done a little unpacking of my mind here and opened up on this public forum about some preferences that are usually private for me. Likewise, thank you for making me think a little more on all of this, and it is nice to be considered reasonable, and that my thoughts matter.

 

[qaz1]

Ok, I admit, I have been afraid to look at myself, and I have many times like you. I will get that flashlight and climb up into my mental attic, those dark corners of the mind, and have a look around for those “ negative racist rat underpinnings” or make sure there are none.

What I have found so far is, that my preference is not based on any BBC stuff, or thug stereotypes, like some guys have expressed as some negative things some white women have with. I dont set out and think, hey I will prefer black guys to rebel or be fashionable. These are some of the negative things I have read that were mentioned.

For me, it is a combination of things, and I dont find every single black equally attractive just because he is black, if that makes sense. There is skin color, physique, smile, eyes, voice, and of course his temperament and personality, a combination of things unique to each guy. This would go for any guy. If I learn he has say hit a women, this is a big thumbs down, his stock will drop so fast and I am out, no matter if he is the most beautiful guy physically. Likewise, if he opens his gorgeous mouth and spews any bigotry, sexism and ignorance, brags excessively, is cruel to animals, substance abuse, tells lies, baby mama drama, serious untreated mental issues, wants just a woman to cook, clean and sire a handful of kids, is a religious zealot, poor hygiene, and is in general violent and a maniac, etc, I am also out. Good looks only go so far, they are like the difference between a hollow candy, and a solid candy. Does this sound legit? am I suspect now?

Of course I am aware that racial preference is not just like sexual orientation and are not the same as is pointed out, and I feel bad for that, I meant it feels this way, it was the best way I could describe that lack of control over my preference part. Thanks for pointing that out, and I will be more careful there, as I could upset any of my gay or lesbian friends on that, that is their lived experience all their lives, and I have not gone through that, I see that; there is a big difference, and would be insulting of me to say they are the same.

I would go on dates with other guys, depending on various things, but at some point if I am not feeling it, it would not be fair to them or me to continue just to be politically correct. I can see attractive men of all races, but it is hard to explain this, there is that it factor, that pull for me that gets to me. I can see a guys appeal, and acknowledge it, but there is not that pull for me personally if that makes sense, and I know it when I feel it, and it usually something that happens right away. To think of it, I have been attracted to men darker than me for a long time, but it has gone from medium dark, to dark like black guys. I have read this from some of the male members here, where they began liking medium skinned women, and then found themselves liking white women. I also think some people have a lower threshold of attraction in general, I seem to have a higher one, in general, it takes a few things for me to feel very attracted to a guy, but when I do, it can be intense, I hope that does not sound crazy.

From a biological standpoint, and I have mentioned before, we humans share 99% of the same dna, and some scientists have said there are just two broad human races; caucasian, which includes, white, middle eastern, and black,. The other race is then asian. So if I go by that, than technically my preference for black men is actually preferring my own race.

I hope that all makes sense, that was a little difficult, I have done a little unpacking of my mind here and opened up on this public forum about some preferences that are usually private for me. Likewise, thank you for making me think a little more on all of this, and it is nice to be considered reasonable, and that my thoughts matter.

Thanks for sharing all that, @missshyness ! I'm really enjoying your perspective. No, you're not crazy. You're intelligent and thoughtful, clearly a deep person.

I feel like I know you a little better, and I feel like we actually have very similar attitudes. You don't sound suspect LOL. You never did! From what you wrote, it sounds like you've just got a simple preference. I'm generally all for people just liking what they like. This stuff is all way too complicated to paint with broad strokes. And even if someone's preferences are negatively founded or reinforced, I've still gotta live my life right? I choose to be positive. Can't let what I can't control keep me down.

I'll try two final examples (not that you need it lol, just for anyone who sees this later)---
"Positive":
This is easy. If a person fetishizes a group of people (yellow fever, thug/bbc glorification, ww as status symbols, and on and on), they're after objects, not people. It doesn't matter that they "like" these objects of their affection. Their preference is founded on toxicity.

Negative:
Picture this, a white person prefers only dating white people. They say they "just don't find black people attractive." Fine, everyone gets to like what they like. But if this white person has lived their entire life in the USA (with an all white family, attending mostly white schools, working in nearly all white offices, etc.), they have consumed Western media for a lifetime. Do you think that American history and 20th/21st century American media had nothing to do with establishing and/or upholding that preference???

Maybe yes, maybe no. It's obviously complicated and varied from person to person. But I think it's at best naïve--at worst disingenuous--to act as if our nation's negative history and venal media haven't impacted preferences on a massive level. Look no further than any race-based online dating research.

Last thing---
I don't believe there are two human races. All humans are homosexual sapiens sapiens. The whole race thing, from what I've studied, is pseudoscientific at best. But I'm happy to look at any legit info to the contrary. I'm willing to be proven wrong.

 

[Madeleine]

Interesting discussion! Why do we have to choose though? I don’t think it’s impossible to find men (women) of different shades of complexion attractive.

 

[qaz1]

Interesting discussion! Why do we have to choose though? I don’t think it’s impossible to find men (women) of different shades of complexion attractive.

I completely agree!

 

[missshyness]

Thanks for sharing all that, @missshyness ! I'm really enjoying your perspective. No, you're not crazy. You're intelligent and thoughtful, clearly a deep person.

I feel like I know you a little better, and I feel like we actually have very similar attitudes. You don't sound suspect LOL. You never did! From what you wrote, it sounds like you've just got a simple preference. I'm generally all for people just liking what they like. This stuff is all way too complicated to paint with broad strokes. And even if someone's preferences are negatively founded or reinforced, I've still gotta live my life right? I choose to be positive. Can't let what I can't control keep me down.

I'll try two final examples (not that you need it lol, just for anyone who sees this later)---
"Positive":
This is easy. If a person fetishizes a group of people (yellow fever, thug/bbc glorification, ww as status symbols, and on and on), they're after objects, not people. It doesn't matter that they "like" these objects of their affection. Their preference is founded on toxicity.

Negative:
Picture this, a white person prefers only dating white people. They say they "just don't find black people attractive." Fine, everyone gets to like what they like. But if this white person has lived their entire life in the USA (with an all white family, attending mostly white schools, working in nearly all white offices, etc.), they have consumed Western media for a lifetime. Do you think that American history and 20th/21st century American media had nothing to do with establishing and/or upholding that preference???

Maybe yes, maybe no. It's obviously complicated and varied from person to person. But I think it's at best naïve--at worst disingenuous--to act as if our nation's negative history and venal media haven't impacted preferences on a massive level. Look no further than any race-based online dating research.

Last thing---
I don't believe there are two human races. All humans are homosexual sapiens sapiens. The whole race thing, from what I've studied, is pseudoscientific at best. But I'm happy to look at any legit info to the contrary. I'm willing to be proven wrong.

Thank you, @qaz1, it is really nice to have someone value what I say, it sometimes feels like I don't get that very often. It also feels good to know someone is beginning to or attempting to see where I am coming from. Yes, I agree too that the environment will play a role in a person's preferences. I have found that people who grew up in a very homogenous background tend to prefer their own culture, people, etc above all else, and feel theirs is better. They may be less tolerant of anything really different.

The whole idea of making a person an object is a strange one too, if I am going for somebody, even if it is just a fling, I want to feel positively about them, one has to protect themselves physically and mentally, and emotionally, especially women do.

The whole race thing too is human made, I even really do not understand why the term race is used lol, I keep thinking of racing, like horse racing or something, like we are all in some kind of race with one another to be the best?

 

[missshyness]

I completely agree!

Interesting discussion! Why do we have to choose though? I don’t think it’s impossible to find men (women) of different shades of complexion attractive.

I am not saying we have to choose, more to the point, that sometimes the preferences can choose us, it is not always entirely under our control, and trying to tell someone that they should like or try all people, or whatever to be politically correct is not productive. For me it feels like telling a gay person they should try being straight, again, I know my preference and gayness are different, I am saying, emphasizing it feels like, although I admit I do not know what being gay feels like. It is just my way I can best describe it, and maybe not the best way, and no offense, forgive me gays for using this as a comparison.

I also think that when some people say they have no preference or only want their own type etc, are not always being honest, with themselves or others, they might be hedging their bets not to sound bad. I am not saying that anybody here is doing that though.

I am not saying that it is impossible to find other guys attractive, but my preference chose me, and I do find and am capable of finding other shades of guys attractive too, but for me now, black men have that extra pull for me, and sometimes it feels like I have to defend this or get judged, questioned or scrutinized for it. I have had even worse, been called a whore, and other negative suggested stuff by angry individuals (not sure who they were, it was from an anonymous person, they did not have a user name, on another online forum, it could have been a black guy, he was angry that women made fantasies about them).

So yeah, I have had some negative stuff come my way, when ever I have suggested my preference, so now a days, I generally keep it to myself, until I know my company better, and getting to know here, I have felt a little safer opening up about it, this really feels like the first time that someone has appreciated or at least somewhat understood what I am saying.

I now realize I have to just know what is in my heart and mind, and be prepared that people will judge, but all I know and can best explain with the limitations of a public online forum is that so far, I have not thought, gee, I am going to only like black men now, I want me a thug bbc, exotic or what ever else negative things that might be attributed to a white woman liking a black man for. I have no bad intentions in my mind or heart, it is what is for me, if someone cannot accept that, there is nothing else that I can think of to do.

To me, it seems some people have a lower threshold of attraction, meaning they may have a wider scope of whom they are attracted to, while others might have a narrower scope. Also, preferences might evolve or change for some people over time, while for others it might have been there all along, and all it takes is the right set of events or circumstances to bring it out.

 

[bodhesatva]

I agree with your point missshyness, but this gets into a really tough situation where the problem is only clear when you zoom out and look at everyone.

Let me give a simple example -- and this is extreme on purpose, just to explain what I mean. Imagine a woman who happens to prefer white guys (or guys with light skin, whatever). Is that a problem? Definitely not! Like you said, it's not exactly under our control. But let's say the next girl prefers white guys, too. And the next. And when you zoom out to the whole society, 99% of women say they happen to prefer white guys.

At that point, we can't blame any specific individual for their preference, but something is definitely going on underneath the hood. Can't be a coincidence if 99% of women all just so happen to hold the same preference. There have to be some cultural forces at work that bend our preferences in a specific direction, perhaps without us even realizing it.

I don't think the US is like that now, but it probably was pretty close to that as recently as, say, 1970. I mean, interracial marriage was legal then, but the huge, vast majority of white women still preferred white men, because culture taught us that the way white men look is what "handsome" is supposed to look like.

But again, if you zoom back in to the individual level, I definitely agree that you can't blame any one woman for her personal preferences, and you can't put the weight of social injustice on her shoulders. It's a tricky thing to talk about!

 

[missshyness]

I agree with your point missshyness, but this gets into a really tough situation where the problem is only clear when you zoom out and look at everyone.

Let me give a simple example -- and this is extreme on purpose, just to explain what I mean. Imagine a woman who happens to prefer white guys (or guys with light skin, whatever). Is that a problem? Definitely not! Like you said, it's not exactly under our control. But let's say the next girl prefers white guys, too. And the next. And when you zoom out to the whole society, 99% of women say they happen to prefer white guys.

At that point, we can't blame any specific individual for their preference, but something is definitely going on underneath the hood. Can't be a coincidence if 99% of women all just so happen to hold the same preference. There have to be some cultural forces at work that bend our preferences in a specific direction, perhaps without us even realizing it.

I don't think the US is like that now, but it probably was pretty close to that as recently as, say, 1970. I mean, interracial marriage was legal then, but the huge, vast majority of white women still preferred white men, because culture taught us that the way white men look is what "handsome" is supposed to look like.

But again, if you zoom back in to the individual level, I definitely agree that you can't blame any one woman for her personal preferences, and you can't put the weight of social injustice on her shoulders. It's a tricky thing to talk about!

Yes, it sure is a tricky thing, I see your point too, there would definitely be something going on, even if that something is culture. I guess it could come down to something like a nature versus nurture debate sort of thing, those who say something is biological, and those who say something is driven by our environment. The culture one is raised in can be a powerful force, and unless an individual is exposed to different cultures early on, and is raised in sort of a bubble, with only their own kind (that is the best way I can put this), they may be less open to any one different.