I Believe That...

Beliefs and facts are mutually exclusive?

My dude, this makes no sense. Are you perhaps confusing belief with opinion? Because yes, facts and opinions are mutually exclusive. But belief can either be based on fact or not. They absolutely can go together, making them absolutely not mutually exclusive.

And of course facts don't *require* belief! Who said they do? For example, 2+2=4 whether you believe it or not; it's a fact. But if logic rules, you BELIEVE 2+2=4 *because* it's a FACT (and not a scientific one btw, a mathematical one). That's belief based on fact, plain and simple. Not mutually exclusive in the slightest.

Maybe I'm not effectively communicating my actual arguments. Of course your opinion on music is subjective! I didn't say it wasn't. My point was that your subjective BELIEF isn't based on scientific proof. It's based on experiential proof. It's the same with your love for family.

I'm thankful to you for this opportunity to engage in discussion. I offer my sincere apologies if I've offended you here. But your arguments don't even follow your own rules. (Whether people agree on morality doesn't make it subjective or objective. By definition, it's either objective on it's own or it isn't. Remember, facts don't require *any* belief to be factual; they certainly don't require consensus.)

Your apparent presuppositions lack foundation to an alarming degree. You're claiming "criteria" out of thin air (i.e., with no explanation or support).

Also, my examples are just that, examples. I won't even argue whether they're even good examples (there's another opinion question). I'm not hinging my argument on the given examples of family love or music preference. Those are only intended to illustrate (which perhaps they didn't do well).

My argument is simply that my Christian belief in the resurrection of Jesus Christ is founded upon fact. Therefore, it is a reasonably held belief.

I could actually argue that you've now conclusively proven that it's actually YOU who doesn't understand the difference between fact and belief.

Aaaand we've come full circle. :D
 
qaz1 said:
Beliefs and facts are mutually exclusive?

My dude, this makes no sense. Are you perhaps confusing belief with opinion? Because yes, facts and opinions are mutually exclusive. But belief can either be based on fact or not. They absolutely can go together, making them absolutely not mutually exclusive.

And of course facts don't *require* belief! Who said they do? For example, 2+2=4 whether you believe it or not; it's a fact. But if logic rules, you BELIEVE 2+2=4 *because* it's a FACT (and not a scientific one btw, a mathematical one). That's belief based on fact, plain and simple. Not mutually exclusive in the slightest.

Maybe I'm not effectively communicating my actual arguments. Of course your opinion on music is subjective! I didn't say it wasn't. My point was that your subjective BELIEF isn't based on scientific proof. It's based on experiential proof. It's the same with your love for family.

I'm thankful to you for this opportunity to engage in discussion. I offer my sincere apologies if I've offended you here. But your arguments don't even follow your own rules. (Whether people agree on morality doesn't make it subjective or objective. By definition, it's either objective on it's own or it isn't. Remember, facts don't require *any* belief to be factual; they certainly don't require consensus.)

Your apparent presuppositions lack foundation to an alarming degree. You're claiming "criteria" out of thin air (i.e., with no explanation or support).

Also, my examples are just that, examples. I won't even argue whether they're even good examples (there's another opinion question). I'm not hinging my argument on the given examples of family love or music preference. Those are only intended to illustrate (which perhaps they didn't do well).

My argument is simply that my Christian belief in the resurrection of Jesus Christ is founded upon fact. Therefore, it is a reasonably held belief.

I could actually argue that you've now conclusively proven that it's actually YOU who doesn't understand the difference between fact and belief.

Aaaand we've come full circle. :D
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qaz1 said:
Beliefs and facts are mutually exclusive?

My dude, this makes no sense. Are you perhaps confusing belief with opinion? Because yes, facts and opinions are mutually exclusive. But belief can either be based on fact or not. They absolutely can go together, making them absolutely not mutually exclusive.

And of course facts don't *require* belief! Who said they do? For example, 2+2=4 whether you believe it or not; it's a fact. But if logic rules, you BELIEVE 2+2=4 *because* it's a FACT (and not a scientific one btw, a mathematical one). That's belief based on fact, plain and simple. Not mutually exclusive in the slightest.

Maybe I'm not effectively communicating my actual arguments. Of course your opinion on music is subjective! I didn't say it wasn't. My point was that your subjective BELIEF isn't based on scientific proof. It's based on experiential proof. It's the same with your love for family.

I'm thankful to you for this opportunity to engage in discussion. I offer my sincere apologies if I've offended you here. But your arguments don't even follow your own rules. (Whether people agree on morality doesn't make it subjective or objective. By definition, it's either objective on it's own or it isn't. Remember, facts don't require *any* belief to be factual; they certainly don't require consensus.)

Your apparent presuppositions lack foundation to an alarming degree. You're claiming "criteria" out of thin air (i.e., with no explanation or support).

Also, my examples are just that, examples. I won't even argue whether they're even good examples (there's another opinion question). I'm not hinging my argument on the given examples of family love or music preference. Those are only intended to illustrate (which perhaps they didn't do well).

My argument is simply that my Christian belief in the resurrection of Jesus Christ is founded upon fact. Therefore, it is a reasonably held belief.

I could actually argue that you've now conclusively proven that it's actually YOU who doesn't understand the difference between fact and belief.

Aaaand we've come full circle. :D
Click to expand...
It's all good man.

And I misspoke about facts and beliefs being mutually exclusive so I actually agree with the bolded.

The rest of your post I disagree with. I gave you the criteria from the beginning and you never gave yours so that's that.
 
Beasty said:
It's all good man.

And I misspoke about facts and beliefs being mutually exclusive so I actually agree with the bolded.

The rest of your post I disagree with. I gave you the criteria from the beginning and you never gave yours so that's that.
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Whoa! I completely forgot about this LOL. Not my best debate work, I admit, but I think we know where we stand. Respect, brother!
 
A graduate of the Wharton School, Jon Gabriel discovered a mind-body connection that helped him thrive, and even lose over 220 pounds.

He says combining quantum physics and metaphysics creates a paradigm shift in the way we view the world. Quantum physics has put forward the theory that we are living in a multiverse-- that there could be an infinite number of parallel universes existing simultaneously. There are possible versions of ourselves living in all these different universes, he suggested, and intriguingly "we're actually moving through these universes all the time without knowing it."

Further, we can become conscious of this traversing and do certain things that enable us to be in the best timeline possible, he stated.

As evidence for the multiple world theory, Gabriel cited the Mandela Effect, in which people's memories of certain past events differ from the current reality. When many people experience this, it could be an indicator that we've changed timelines, he commented.

After doing a 21-day water-only fast in 2006, he entered into a period of higher perceptions and cosmic consciousness, and became aware of the simultaneous universes. "It was almost like my body was the multiverse...and each cell was a different universe," and he said he could see the energy inside other people's bodies.

"If you look at the multiverse as an ocean", Gabriel continued, "the universes at the bottom may be darker and heavier, while the ones at the top are more buoyant and light-filled, and we're going to be somewhere in the middle based on where our energy profiles fit."

"We can use visualization and meditation to raise or open our energy, so that we naturally drift to a higher version of reality."
 
Bliss said:
A graduate of the Wharton School, Jon Gabriel discovered a mind-body connection that helped him thrive, and even lose over 220 pounds.

He says combining quantum physics and metaphysics creates a paradigm shift in the way we view the world. Quantum physics has put forward the theory that we are living in a multiverse-- that there could be an infinite number of parallel universes existing simultaneously. There are possible versions of ourselves living in all these different universes, he suggested, and intriguingly "we're actually moving through these universes all the time without knowing it."

Further, we can become conscious of this traversing and do certain things that enable us to be in the best timeline possible, he stated.

As evidence for the multiple world theory, Gabriel cited the Mandela Effect, in which people's memories of certain past events differ from the current reality. When many people experience this, it could be an indicator that we've changed timelines, he commented.

After doing a 21-day water-only fast in 2006, he entered into a period of higher perceptions and cosmic consciousness, and became aware of the simultaneous universes. "It was almost like my body was the multiverse...and each cell was a different universe," and he said he could see the energy inside other people's bodies.

"If you look at the multiverse as an ocean", Gabriel continued, "the universes at the bottom may be darker and heavier, while the ones at the top are more buoyant and light-filled, and we're going to be somewhere in the middle based on where our energy profiles fit."

"We can use visualization and meditation to raise or open our energy, so that we naturally drift to a higher version of reality."
Click to expand...

I have a friend who's convinced we're currently living in a simulation. This does kind of make sense.
 
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