Random Political comments...

Loki said:
The way I see it Bliss there is a BIG difference between being wrong, and flat out lying. Many did keep their plan and doctor, some did not, not everyone's premiums increased, in fact some went down, and overall the premiums increased at a slower pace post ACA than pre ACA http://healthaffairs.org/blog/2016/07/21/obamacare-premiums-are-lower-than-you-think/. Many forget that where premiums did increase it was due in part to hostility from the states http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-obamacare-rates-20161031-story.html http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-insurance-canceled-20140307-story.html

This is what I meant in my earlier post about unintended consequences. IMO, I did think that the Obama administration was naive in their thinking that the insurance companies would not rebel and opt out of the insurance exchanges when forced to offer more coverage, cover pre-existing conditions, and keep kids on their parents plan until age 26. NO law can demand all of those things and keep costs down, even with the help of federal subsidies, the shareholders of the insurance companies just would not stand for it.

On the transparency issue, I would agree that his was not the most transparent ever, another example of making an ill-advised campaign promise and then got a rude awakening once in office that in order to get things done in Washington ones motives and plans cannot always be transparent to the opposition. That being said, there were some successes and failures on the transparency issue http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/subjects/transparency/?page=2
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What about the structuring of premiums to go up in 2017. That he kept the most significant raises at bay until he had left office or at least until after the election in which he assumed Hillary would win otherwise.
 
Bliss said:
What about the structuring of premiums to go up in 2017. That he kept the most significant raises at bay until he had left office or at least until after the election in which he assumed Hillary would win otherwise.
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Not sure I would agree that the ACA was "structured" to increase premiums in 2017, per the last bullet below, there were many factors at play where the insurance companies just flat out underestimated their costs. As I mentioned before, this is such a complicated and complex issue, that no law can possibly foresee all the consequences that will arise down the line after passing.

  • A general rise in the nation’s health care tab. Overall, U.S. health care spending grew by 5.3 percent in 2014 – reaching an historic level of $3 trillion, after years of relative cost stability. Medical costs rise from year to year and will certainly affect the next round of premium hikes.
  • Soaring prescription drug prices. Insurers as well as government health care programs have been struggling to keep pace with rising drug prices, especially newer specialty drugs to treat the Hepatitis-C virus and cancer. Pfizer Inc., Amgen Inc., Allergan PLC and other companies have raised U.S. prices for scores of branded drugs since late December, with many of the increases between 9 percent and 10 percent, according to the Wall Street Journal .
  • The combination of market forces and limitations imposed by the Affordable Care Act will put enormous pressure on insurers to up their premiums. Under the law, there is a cap on insurers’ profits, companies are obliged to insure anyone regardless of their general health or pre-existing conditions, and the insurance plans must be structured in a certain way that often lead to losses.
  • Finally, two of three federal “risk mitigation” programs created under Obamacare are due to expire in 2017. Those programs were set up to protect insurers from huge, unexpected losses from providing health insurance on the Obamacare exchanges. UnitedHealth and other major insurers have found it difficult to accurately anticipate their costs in providing coverage to sicker or older Americans, and set premiums that were inadequate to cover their risks. Without those programs to fall back on, many companies likely will seek to jack up their premiums.
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2016/04/21/Get-Ready-Huge-Obamacare-Premium-Hikes-2017
 
Bliss said:
Didn't Obama sell hope and change?
Your premiums wont go up?
You can keep your plan and your doctor?
You will get $2,500 back in your pocket?
Ours will be the Most transparent goverment ever?

Why do you give Obama a pass but berate Trump as a liar?
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Who says I gave Obama a pass? The ACA is far from perfect. Even the most ardent supporters can admit that. But I do think it's a step in the right direction.

And speaking of giving someone a pass, how about you giving a pass to all of Trump's lies?

He's gonna repeal the ACA on day one of his presidency!
His health care plan is going to cover everybody (before promoting a plan that would end up doing the exact opposite)!
And it's going to be cheaper than the ACA!
He's going to drain the swamp!
LOCK HER UP!
He's going to build a wall and make Mexico pay for it!
He's going to be too busy working to play golf all the time!
He doesn't settle out of court (before settling out of court)!
He's going to release his tax returns as soon as the audit is done!
He's going to release his tax returns as soon as the election is over!
He's going to release his tax returns as soon as [NULL SET]!
He's gonna make the best deals!

And that's just the stuff that I can think of off the top of my head...from the first three months of his Presidency. I'm berating Trump as a liar because he is a liar.

Shit, Trump is such a massive liar that he was even called out for a few weeks ago:
If President Trump announces that North Korea launched a missile that landed within 100 miles of Hawaii, would most Americans believe him? Would the rest of the world? We’re not sure, which speaks to the damage that Mr. Trump is doing to his Presidency with his seemingly endless stream of exaggerations, evidence-free accusations, implausible denials and other falsehoods.
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By the way, that quote above isn't from the New York Times or the Washington Post...it's from the editorial page of the Wall Street Journal. So yeah, massive, bigly, liar. YUGE.
 
Since1980 said:
Who says I gave Obama a pass? The ACA is far from perfect. Even the most ardent supporters can admit that. But I do think it's a step in the right direction.

And speaking of giving someone a pass, how about you giving a pass to all of Trump's lies?

He's gonna repeal the ACA on day one of his presidency!
His health care plan is going to cover everybody (before promoting a plan that would end up doing the exact opposite)!
And it's going to be cheaper than the ACA!
He's going to drain the swamp!
LOCK HER UP!
He's going to build a wall and make Mexico pay for it!
He's going to be too busy working to play golf all the time!
He doesn't settle out of court (before settling out of court)!
He's going to release his tax returns as soon as the audit is done!
He's going to release his tax returns as soon as the election is over!
He's going to release his tax returns as soon as [NULL SET]!
He's gonna make the best deals!

And that's just the stuff that I can think of off the top of my head...from the first three months of his Presidency. I'm berating Trump as a liar because he is a liar.

Shit, Trump is such a massive liar that he was even called out for a few weeks ago:


By the way, that quote above isn't from the New York Times or the Washington Post...it's from the editorial page of the Wall Street Journal. So yeah, massive, bigly, liar. YUGE.
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Hmm...sonething funny happened on the way to fixing the Govt. Asshole Democrats and Liberal Judges have stalled him every. inch. of. the. way.

Admittedly the ACA wasnt repelled on day 1. because the Reublicans were NOT ready with the new plan. He couldnt get the votes he needed either.. They screwed him.
Like Loki said, the ACA is complicated and frankly IMO, it's an utter mess.

He never said he was going to release his tax returns.

He also asked for bids on the wall and of course California and New York have threatened any Builder that submits a proposal that they will never do business in their state again.
Are you fucking kidding me??

And you have the nerve to sit here and say he hasn't built the wall?
Democrats are nothing but obstructionists.
 
Bliss said:
Hmm...sonething funny happened on the way to fixing the Govt. Asshole Democrats and Liberal Judges have stalled him every. inch. of. the. way.

Admittedly the ACA wasnt repelled on day 1. because the Reublicans were NOT ready with the new plan. He couldnt get the votes he needed either.. They screwed him.
Like Loki said, the ACA is complicated and frankly IMO, it's an utter mess.

He never said he was going to release his tax returns.

He also asked for bids on the wall and of course California and New York have threatened any Builder that submits a proposal that they will never do business in their state again.
Are you fucking kidding me??

And you have the nerve to sit here and say he hasn't built the wall?
Democrats are nothing but obstructionists.
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Thats exactly what Democrats said about Republicans for the last 8 years, gridlock at it's finest, you know what they say about "payback" Bliss. Surely you understand why many people would be VERY upset about Trump taking actions to build the wall when he is also asking congress for $ to build the wall instead of making Mexico pay for it as promised with only some vague promises that Mexico will pay back these funds at some unspecified future date.

Trump did say he would release his tax returns when his audit is done, even though the IRS has said repeatedly that there is no restriction from releasing his returns even while under audit.

 
Bliss said:
Hmm...sonething funny happened on the way to fixing the Govt. Asshole Democrats and Liberal Judges have stalled him every. inch. of. the. way.

Admittedly the ACA wasnt repelled on day 1. because the Reublicans were NOT ready with the new plan. He couldnt get the votes he needed either.. They screwed him.
Like Loki said, the ACA is complicated and frankly IMO, it's an utter mess.

He never said he was going to release his tax returns.

He also asked for bids on the wall and of course California and New York have threatened any Builder that submits a proposal that they will never do business in their state again.
Are you fucking kidding me??

And you have the nerve to sit here and say he hasn't built the wall. Democrats are nothing but obstructionists.
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You mean the Democrats who don't control the House? Or the Senate? Or even a majority of state legislatures? Or governorships? Those Democrats? Yeah, if you want to believe that then I won't take that from you. Also, Santa Claus is real and the Tooth Fairy legit exists.

As for not having a plan on day one, whose fault was that? What, did Hillary use her magic powers to completely prevent Trump from doing some actual work that would require more than Tweeting about how mean everyone was to him? He started running in the middle of 2015 and the election wasn't until late last year. His lazy ass had plenty of time to come up with a health care plan and so did the GOP. They spent seven years holding pointless votes on repealing the ACA; it's not the Democrats' fault that they wasted their time doing that instead of coming up with an actual, workable plan.

And as for the wall, why shouldn't the Democrats be against that? It's Trump's idea, and he was the one who said he'd get Mexico to pay for it. It's not the Democrats' fault that he has no idea what the fuck he's doing. And given how Republicans in Congress dedicated themselves to obstructing Obama for eight years, that's the pot calling the kettle. Also, even Republicans in Congress think it's batshit idea. Are you going to blame that on Democrats, too?

Here is a video of Donald Trump literally saying that he'd release his tax returns:

Here's an article with a bunch of other times that Trump said he'd release his tax returns:

February 25, 2015: "I would release tax returns....I would certainly show tax returns if it was necessary....I have no objection to certainly showing tax returns."

January 24, 2016: "We're working on that now. I have very big returns, as you know, and I have everything all approved and very beautiful, and we'll be working that over in the next period of time....We're working on it right now, and at the appropriate time you'll be very satisfied."

February 25, 2016: "I will absolutely give my return, but I'm being audited now for two or three years, so I can't do it until the audit is finished, obviously."

May 10, 2016: "I'll release. Hopefully before the election I'll release."

September 26, 2016: "I don't mind releasing—I'm under a routine audit. And it'll be released....As soon as the audit's finished, it will be released."

October 9, 2016: "As soon as my routine audit is finished, I'll release my returns. I'll be very proud to. They're actually quite great."
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Wait, don't tell me...fake news, right?
 
Loki said:
Thats exactly what Democrats said about Republicans for the last 8 years, gridlock at it's finest, you know what they say about "payback" Bliss. Surely you understand why many people would be VERY upset about Trump taking actions to build the wall when he is also asking congress for $ to build the wall instead of making Mexico pay for it as promised with only some vague promises that Mexico will pay back these funds at some unspecified future date.

Trump did say he would release his tax returns when his audit is done, even though the IRS has said repeatedly that there is no restriction from releasing his returns even while under audit.

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Well, damn. Not only did you beat me to it, you posted a completely different video of Trump saying that he'd release his tax returns than I did.

But nah, Trump never ever said that.
 
Since1980 said:
Well, damn. Not only did you beat me to it, you posted a completely different video of Trump saying that he'd release his tax returns than I did.

But nah, Trump never ever said that.
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No different than when people see a video of a cop killing in cold blood.

"He didn't do it"
 
Loki said:
Thats exactly what Democrats said about Republicans for the last 8 years, gridlock at it's finest, you know what they say about "payback" Bliss. Surely you understand why many people would be VERY upset about Trump taking actions to build the wall when he is also asking congress for $ to build the wall instead of making Mexico pay for it as promised with only some vague promises that Mexico will pay back these funds at some unspecified future date.

Trump did say he would release his tax returns when his audit is done, even though the IRS has said repeatedly that there is no restriction from releasing his returns even while under audit.

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Didn't the shemale on msnbc release his return?
And the Washington Post released another?
Granted he said he would in 2014 but l guess he changed his mind.No one cares but Dem MSM hosts.

I read The Wall will be paid by Mexico through a border excise tax on goods..
And wasn't there funding allocated already under Obama? Will look into that..

Payback? You mean the payback the Rebublicans gave the Democrats for the last eight years, after the obstruction the Dems committed against Bush for his eight years.

The same Dems who refused then to acknowledge President Bush - just like they wont "45" today?

So if you think there won't be paypack next time your Democrat is in Office, you will be mistaken.Its a vicious cycle that's here to stay.

Frankly, Dems are Republicans in the worst way because they are absolute phonies. They go high? Lol..c'mon Loki, Dems and their voters behavior has been utterly despicable, cry babies, dummy spitting, unhinged, deliriously ANGRY BITTER, fist-pounding wailers who put snot-nosed brat kids to shame! Lol.
 
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Since1980 said:
You mean the Democrats who don't control the House? Or the Senate? Or even a majority of state legislatures? Or governorships? Those Democrats? Yeah, if you want to believe that then I won't take that from you. Also, Santa Claus is real and the Tooth Fairy legit exists.

As for not having a plan on day one, whose fault was that? What, did Hillary use her magic powers to completely prevent Trump from doing some actual work that would require more than Tweeting about how mean everyone was to him? He started running in the middle of 2015 and the election wasn't until late last year. His lazy ass had plenty of time to come up with a health care plan and so did the GOP. They spent seven years holding pointless votes on repealing the ACA; it's not the Democrats' fault that they wasted their time doing that instead of coming up with an actual, workable plan.

And as for the wall, why shouldn't the Democrats be against that? It's Trump's idea, and he was the one who said he'd get Mexico to pay for it. It's not the Democrats' fault that he has no idea what the fuck he's doing. And given how Republicans in Congress dedicated themselves to obstructing Obama for eight years, that's the pot calling the kettle. Also, even Republicans in Congress think it's batshit idea. Are you going to blame that on Democrats, too?

Here is a video of Donald Trump literally saying that he'd release his tax returns:

Here's an article with a bunch of other times that Trump said he'd release his tax returns:



Wait, don't tell me...fake news, right?
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I'm well aware of who controls the House and Senate, but don't even try to pretend the Dems haven't been throwing every damn stall tactic in the ring, from nominations on down.

And didnt the Dems vote for the Wall under Obama? Look into it..
 
Loki said:
Disagree with you a little here, Trump never put forward and actual economic plan. Trump just gave general pandering and false promises that spoke directly to peoples fears (Muslim ban, building the wall), insecurities (bring back jobs, negotiate better trade deals, better health care with lower costs for "all") and desperate need for hope even if it was false (make America great again). It's still early, but he has not been able to deliver on "any' of these promises, and still faces a very tough uphill battle on most if not all of his promises. Any voter with even a basic knowledge of our political system knew that he would find it very difficult to deliver on those promises even with majorities in both houses of congress.

Im calling it now, if the Senate does pass this new healthcare bill, there will be unintended (and intended) negative consequences for many, just the way there were with the ACA. The insurance companies will continue to find ways to justify ever increasing premiums and co-pays while fighting tooth and nail to offer less coverage.
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I never said he had an actual plan I said he addressed their economic concerns. The left often paints this picture of everything being great especially for white people often saying they have privilege(personally I think it's closer to delusional blindness but that's another conversation) and that's not their reality at least not for the non educated low skill workers. From their pov everything is getting worst day by day and he addressed that. As ridiculous as his assertions were at the very least he wasn't saying hey you're white you're privileged you have nothing to worry about which is battle cry of the liberal establishment. These people aren't very educated so they aren't going to reach for the same sources you have, they aren't going to operate with much logic all they know is they are hurting and are being ignored. Even if its utter bs at the very least someone is listening to them and echoing their fears and frustration. We can't pretend that doesn't carry a huge impact.
 
Loki said:
Yes she was White, but still a woman, racism and sexism are two sides of the same coin, and many viewed a Clinton victory as a 3rd Obama term. Basically what he was saying is that they wanted a return to their view of "normalcy" a White woman Ms. America, and a White man in the White house.
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I have to disagree for one race trumps gender in this country by leaps and bounds. These same people LOVED Sarah Palin. If it were a white male Democrat who ignored them the way Hilary did they would have voted the same way. I don't know your personal life Loki but seriously take some time to cruise around depressed predominately white areas it will open your eyes. I was in Buffalo a couple of weeks ago and that city is on the verge of losing it's city status because its so depressed economically. These people are dying to hear someone tell them that things can get better and not with new jobs that are far outside of what they know. They want old school factory jobs, they want to work 40 hour work weeks and for it to be enough. Don't get me wrong I have very little sympathy for people who voted in the worst president of all time but if we are going to move forward we have to see things for what they actually are we have to listen.
 
Bliss said:
I'm well aware of who controls the House and Senate, but don't even try to pretend the Dems haven't been throwing every damn stall tactic in the ring, from nominations on down.

And didnt the Dems vote for the Wall under Obama? Look into it..
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Most of the vacant federal positions that have yet to be filled under Trump don't require Senate confirmation. The fact is Trump doesn't want a fully staffed federal government because it makes it harder to govern by executive order.
As quoted by the NYT, Trump stated;
Mr. Trump has insisted that the barren ranks of his government are not a shortcoming but the vanguard of a plan to cut the size of the federal bureaucracy. “A lot of those jobs, I don’t want to appoint, because they’re unnecessary to have,” Mr. Trump told Fox News last month. “I say, ‘What do all these people do?’ You don’t need all those jobs.”

This isn't what happened under BHO when his presidential appointees, like his U.S. Attorneys, that needed Senate confirmation, were blocked by the GOP.

The GOP controls the Senate and only a simply majority vote is needed for Senate confirmation. This delay by Trump isn't the Democrat's fault. Again, per the NYT;
But the numbers paint an unmistakable picture. While Mr. Trump has won confirmation of 18 members of his cabinet, he has not nominated anyone for more than 500 other vital posts and has fallen behind his predecessors in filling the important second- and third-tier positions that carry out most of the government’s crucial daily functions.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/12/us/politics/trump-administration.html?_r=0

As for the Comey firing today, only the 2nd time in U.S. history the Director fo the FBI has been fired, that was a CYA move.
If anyone ever wondered why both Conservatives and Progressives were wary of the increasing unitary power of the Executive branch, today you're seeing those fears were justified.

When a POTUS has a complicit Congress unwilling to investigate the Executive in Chief because of the potential political blowback in their own districts, and an Attorney General who is MORE loyal to the POTUS than the rule of law, you understand how ANY president can govern in a democracy like a dictator.

It's well known throughout most of the 2000s Trump's biggest financial backers for his real estate dealings were Russian oligarchs, put in place by Putin.
The Russians OWN Trump and for anyone to believe Trump had no forewarning the Russians were going to help tilt the election in his favor just isn't credible.


ALso BHO never wanted to build a wall. He wanted to enhance security along the Southern border but he nor the Dems advocated building a physical wall over thousands of miles to the South.
 
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