Random Political comments...

If you listen to the Far Left, none of the Dem candidates is a true hard line progressive. And it doesn't matter who the Dems nominate, the GOP will try to paint them as a commie/weak on national defense/the fence.

The Dems want to stop rigging this economy and our tax code to only benefit the 1%.

I just don't see rust belt voters who voted AGAINST Hillary instead of for Trump are going to make the same mistake again.
People seem to forget that Trump lost the popular vote by 3 million and that statistically his win was a fluke.

Mueller may prove before 2020 that it was stolen also.
 
andreboba said:
If you listen to the Far Left, none of the Dem candidates is a true hard line progressive. And it doesn't matter who the Dems nominate, the GOP will try to paint them as a commie/weak on national defense/the fence.

The Dems want to stop rigging this economy and our tax code to only benefit the 1%.

I just don't see rust belt voters who voted AGAINST Hillary instead of for Trump are going to make the same mistake again.
People seem to forget that Trump lost the popular vote by 3 million and that statistically his win was a fluke.

Mueller may prove before 2020 that it was stolen also.
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It's a lot easier to do when the candidate is actually far left.

Isn't it easier to paint someone as a liar if they are one??

Unbelievable..........this shit.

WOW
 
Beasty said:
It's a lot easier to do when the candidate is actually far left.

Isn't it easier to paint someone as a liar if they are one??

Unbelievable..........this shit.

WOW
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Seeing as how republicans still support Trump in droves, especially evangelical Christians, it isn't easy at all. And Trump is cartoonishly dishonest. Whether it's healthcare, who's paying for the border wall, being wiretapped by Barack Obama, his investigators in Hawaii "uncovering" things about birth certificates, former presidents telling him that they wish they'd built border walls...there's nothing he won't lie about and Republicans turn a blind eye to it every single time.

Remember, we're living in the age of alternative facts.
 
Since1980 said:
Seeing as how republicans still support Trump in droves, especially evangelical Christians, it isn't easy at all. And Trump is cartoonishly dishonest. Whether it's healthcare, who's paying for the border wall, being wiretapped by Barack Obama, his investigators in Hawaii "uncovering" things about birth certificates, former presidents telling him that they wish they'd built border walls...there's nothing he won't lie about and Republicans turn a blind eye to it every single time.

Remember, we're living in the age of alternative facts.
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Good point here, but I was just using that as an example. The independents and moderates are what we want, the loyalists will stay stuck on stupid. Everyone that votes red isn't a knuckle dragger, it's just that the idiots are louder and more vocal, makes it seem that way.

I can't stress this enough: far left is a no go, maybe that will change in the next 20 years, but for now it's like an automatic disqualifier.
 
Then you simply aren't listening to people and what they care about. The only people who are the far left as a socialist movement are the wealthy and right leaning zealots. The average American is desperate for relief. They want a reasonable plan backed by someone with a decent record for doing what they say what they will do.
This election will be about policy single payer/Medicare for all, a green new deal with a promise for good paying jobs, and either free (state) college or better housing control (either would do).
Listen to actual working class human beings not zealots. The people are desperate for someone who will usher in beneficial change not some middle of the road milk toast candidate who is offering incremental change policy while people starve to death in the street. Radical change is what's going to win this something that will actually inspire turnout. Fighting for the mythical middle of the road voters is a complete waste of time we saw that with HRC
 
This guy talking about the economy like it's 2008. Don't waste too much energy on me I'm not voting. Fuck it
 
Madeleine said:
No way! You have to vote! If you don’t vote you have forfeited your right to complain about anything for the next few years.
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You're absolutely right. If no one else steps up, not only will I not be voting, I won't be complaining either.

Maybe it's just time for this country to go down the toilet like every society eventually does. I'm at peace with it. No sense in complaining about the inevitable.
 
You can't ever stop voting in a democracy. You're only laying the groundwork individually for a totalitarian state down the road.

If you value your rights and freedom, you MUST vote. All the time. Every time.

You do realize it's the goal of the GOP to discourage most Americans to believe voting is futile so why do it??

It's never futile, because next time you're going to get a more extreme version of the current Trump administration, where the POTUS believes all agencies and branches of government work directly for him.

American fascism is a very real possibility when people don't vote.

Democracies die when citizens no longer care about electoral outcomes.

BTW, Beasty, who do you think the radical Far Left is?? Most of those guys spend their time bashing the moderate left and the Democratic party, but they aren't really a threat to generic progressives.
 
andreboba said:
You can't ever stop voting in a democracy. You're only laying the groundwork individually for a totalitarian state down the road.

If you value your rights and freedom, you MUST vote. All the time. Every time.

You do realize it's the goal of the GOP to discourage most Americans to believe voting is futile so why do it??

It's never futile, because next time you're going to get a more extreme version of the current Trump administration, where the POTUS believes all agencies and branches of government work directly for him.

American fascism is a very real possibility when people don't vote.

Democracies die when citizens no longer care about electoral outcomes.

BTW, Beasty, who do you think the radical Far Left is?? Most of those guys spend their time bashing the moderate left and the Democratic party, but they aren't really a threat to generic progressives.
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Agreed!
 
andreboba said:
You can't ever stop voting in a democracy. You're only laying the groundwork individually for a totalitarian state down the road.

If you value your rights and freedom, you MUST vote. All the time. Every time.

You do realize it's the goal of the GOP to discourage most Americans to believe voting is futile so why do it??

It's never futile, because next time you're going to get a more extreme version of the current Trump administration, where the POTUS believes all agencies and branches of government work directly for him.

American fascism is a very real possibility when people don't vote.

Democracies die when citizens no longer care about electoral outcomes.

BTW, Beasty, who do you think the radical Far Left is?? Most of those guys spend their time bashing the moderate left and the Democratic party, but they aren't really a threat to generic progressives.
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I'm not even sure if I care anymore. I'm tired of seeing adults acting like rebellious teens that have no way of winning by beating their fist against the wall. You can't get much worse than Trump unless the next guy starts killing his rivals like a real dictator. If this country goes that far down the gutter, I would not be surprised at this point.

You gonna tell me Warren isn't far left? lol. That's Bernie in a dress.
Madeleine said:
Agreed!
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To understand America, you have to see all of the things it has done to distinguish itself from Europe. Every since the beginning of this country America has went out of it's way to be different. Driving on different side of the road, not using metric system, even our whiskey is different, most of the world makes malt whisky, America instead makes Bourbon which is at least 51% corn or Rye which is at least 51% rye whiskey. We even use the quadratic equation in Algebra when the rest of the world uses the brazilian equation. Even though the Brazilian Equation is more efficient and less error prone, we have math professors that don't even know it. We are also more Capitalist, our college system is different. Our cars are generally bigger. We have muscle cars instead of sports cars. I can go on and on.

Yet you have a group of folks that although educated somehow don't see this and they make futile attempts to try to make America be more similar to Europe. They are the far left, and I'm just as sick of them as I am the right, because they are creating problems by trying to turn this country into something it refuses to be.

This country would go far right as possible, (and it has ) just to show them what they refuse to see, but they are apparently stubborn enough to have fall completely.

Instead of accepting the will of the country and fixing the unnecessary problems. They keep pushing the crap that makes this country go further right.

I'm done with it. Let them burn it down if that's what it takes.
 
I'm just saying, people like Jimmy Dore and Secular Talk don't think she's progressive enough and simply don't trust her.

But let's say Elizabeth Warren is basically progressive. What issue policy wise and politically do you have with her?
Warren started the consumer financial protection bureau that recovered more than $12 billion for American consumers who had been ripped off from illegal debt collections and mortgage fraud.

Beasty, I promise you if we become a modern fascist state similar to Russia, you would not like it very much at all.
 
andreboba said:
You can't ever stop voting in a democracy. You're only laying the groundwork individually for a totalitarian state down the road.

If you value your rights and freedom, you MUST vote. All the time. Every time.

You do realize it's the goal of the GOP to discourage most Americans to believe voting is futile so why do it??

It's never futile, because next time you're going to get a more extreme version of the current Trump administration, where the POTUS believes all agencies and branches of government work directly for him.

American fascism is a very real possibility when people don't vote.

Democracies die when citizens no longer care about electoral outcomes.

BTW, Beasty, who do you think the radical Far Left is?? Most of those guys spend their time bashing the moderate left and the Democratic party, but they aren't really a threat to generic progressives.
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Well made point. I'm especially disappointed when the disenfranchised don't participate. Our ancestors even relatives who are currently living have experienced worst. We have a front row seat to see that progress is real, that voting matters. But I honestly don't mind the Beastys of the worlds staying home. Its his right
 
Beasty said:
I'm not even sure if I care anymore. I'm tired of seeing adults acting like rebellious teens that have no way of winning by beating their fist against the wall. You can't get much worse than Trump unless the next guy starts killing his rivals like a real dictator. If this country goes that far down the gutter, I would not be surprised at this point.

You gonna tell me Warren isn't far left? lol. That's Bernie in a dress.

To understand America, you have to see all of the things it has done to distinguish itself from Europe. Every since the beginning of this country America has went out of it's way to be different. Driving on different side of the road, not using metric system, even our whiskey is different, most of the world makes malt whisky, America instead makes Bourbon which is at least 51% corn or Rye which is at least 51% rye whiskey. We even use the quadratic equation in Algebra when the rest of the world uses the brazilian equation. Even though the Brazilian Equation is more efficient and less error prone, we have math professors that don't even know it. We are also more Capitalist, our college system is different. Our cars are generally bigger. We have muscle cars instead of sports cars. I can go on and on.

Yet you have a group of folks that although educated somehow don't see this and they make futile attempts to try to make America be more similar to Europe. They are the far left, and I'm just as sick of them as I am the right, because they are creating problems by trying to turn this country into something it refuses to be.

This country would go far right as possible, (and it has ) just to show them what they refuse to see, but they are apparently stubborn enough to have fall completely.

Instead of accepting the will of the country and fixing the unnecessary problems. They keep pushing the crap that makes this country go further right.

I'm done with it. Let them burn it down if that's what it takes.
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You are obviously not a student of history or politics. Things shift things change. Yes this country is different in some ways but we're also a nation of evolving ideas where else can a descendant of slaves become president or even amongst the worlds wealthy especially without tyranny and oppression. You also see the nations ability to change to march towards progress. We could do a full week on the racial stuff but even boiling it down to economic things like the 40 hour work week a minimum wage the right of children not to work etc people like you would have strongly argued hey that's just the way things are. We are a country founded on slavery and oppression people should not vote for FDRs of the world they're too radical. Americans don't want protections against the greedy. Theyre the job creators they'll just pack up and go somewhere. But some how he got a 90 percent tax rate on the wealthy. He got Medicare and social security so we don't throw away the elderly like garbage. So when you say the left is being too left you obviously don't pay attention to history or only the parts that support your narrative.
 
andreboba said:
I'm just saying, people like Jimmy Dore and Secular Talk don't think she's progressive enough and simply don't trust her.

But let's say Elizabeth Warren is basically progressive. What issue policy wise and politically do you have with her?
Warren started the consumer financial protection bureau that recovered more than $12 billion for American consumers who had been ripped off from illegal debt collections and mortgage fraud.

Beasty, I promise you if we become a modern fascist state similar to Russia, you would not like it very much at all.
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You really don't get it do you. There is nothing wrong with being far left or even far right. Far left is not functional in America because she keeps resisting it and you can't change that. I'm about things that actually work. Pick your battles. What next? You gonna make America pay more attention to soccer like the rest of the world instead of football? That type of stuff, I'm actually mature enough to ignore. Because there is no right or wrong answer, if you were wise you would let America do her thing. But you and countless other won't so...........

I'm picking my battles by staying out of it. I find the whole political atmosphere to be ridiculous. If it becomes like Russia, it will be because far lefties like you can't leave well enough alone.
 
The Dark King said:
You are obviously not a student of history or politics. Things shift things change. Yes this country is different in some ways but we're also a nation of evolving ideas where else can a descendant of slaves become president or even amongst the worlds wealthy especially without tyranny and oppression. You also see the nations ability to change to march towards progress. We could do a full week on the racial stuff but even boiling it down to economic things like the 40 hour work week a minimum wage the right of children not to work etc people like you would have strongly argued hey that's just the way things are. We are a country founded on slavery and oppression people should not vote for FDRs of the world they're too radical. Americans don't want protections against the greedy. Theyre the job creators they'll just pack up and go somewhere. But some how he got a 90 percent tax rate on the wealthy. He got Medicare and social security so we don't throw away the elderly like garbage. So when you say the left is being too left you obviously don't pay attention to history or only the parts that support your narrative.
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I'm talking present as well as history and i'm done with your false equivalencies.

The stuff I mentioned like whiskey is not based on right or wrong, yet you come up with slavery, when Europe was involved in it too. Don't insult my intelligence.
 
Beasty said:
I'm talking present as well as history and i'm done with your false equivalencies.

The stuff I mentioned like whiskey is not based on right or wrong, yet you come up with slavery, when Europe was involved in it too. Don't insult my intelligence.
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Different animal they didn't live with their slaves like they do here. It has a much different cultural effect.
And if you think how we create whiskey is a true indicator of we're different you are being intellectually dishonest but it's your right carry on
 
Beasty said:
You gonna tell me Warren isn't far left? lol. That's Bernie in a dress.
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Not on capitalism, she isn't. Warren strongly believes in the power of the markets to come to the aid of the American people (with a few teaks) Bernie, on the other hand, doesn't trust the markets as far as he can throw them.

https://jacobinmag.com/2019/01/elizabeth-warren-bernie-sanders-socialism-progressives
https://theweek.com/articles/815282/where-elizabeth-warren-differs-from-bernie-sanders
 
The Dark King said:
Different animal they didn't live with their slaves like they do here. It has a much different cultural effect.
And if you think how we create whiskey is a true indicator of we're different you are being intellectually dishonest but it's your right carry on
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I'm not talking right or wrong stuff at all. Are you high?
 
The Dark King said:
Different animal they didn't live with their slaves like they do here. It has a much different cultural effect.
And if you think how we create whiskey is a true indicator of we're different you are being intellectually dishonest but it's your right carry on
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Are you able to understand that right and wrong isn't even the issue here?
 
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