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TheHuntress said:
laughable? Do you even know what statutory rape is? It's considered rape because one partner is younger than the legal age of consent. There are lots of actual relationships on the books because one partner was 17 and the other was 22, and they ended up married for 60+ years. This person and I were friends before the 'relationship', and once I went off to college, we remained in touch with the understanding that the entire thing wasn't feasible to maintain. We went our separate ways. We reconnected two years ago because we actually are both in the training business.

So...your attempts to insult me based on facts you don't know....?? Laughable.
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If I or any man on this forum said that we had a "relationship" with a 16 year old girl or to be more true to your story 12 years old for me. What would be the response?
 
The Dark Knight said:
If I or any man on this forum said that we had a "relationship" with a 16 year old girl or to be more true to your story 12 years old for me. What would be the response?
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17 is the legal age of consent in NY.

I was 17 when anything physical happened.

So....apples to oranges. When you have something solid, you let me know.
 
FG said:
The truth is that women stay because they have slowly been brainwashed and/or threatened. Before the beatings start, there is usually emotional and mental abuse that many women are mental prisoners before it is escalated to violent physical abuse. Often, these men isolate their woman as well so that she has no confidants or anyone to lean on.
The other part is that there is usually also a threat to the woman's family and kids etc - "I will kill them if you leave" so they stay.

Its a very complicated issue and most of these men that take this route, have no clue they are doing anything wrong. Its justified with "she made me do it" and other nonsense. I personally know of a professor that openly said to my class that when his wife burned the chicken for the third time, he took his rings off and hit her (because he didnt want the rings to hurt her, wtf) and that she then got the message.. "I had to teach her". He had NO clue that what he was doing is not ok.
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I'm not saying things like this don't happen. I've seen it growing up but the way its talked about sometimes is as if there aren't any options. And again maybe I am incredibly naive and have been around saints my whole life but the men in my life don't hit women, men in my life don't abuse women, they don't even joke about it. Truth is most men I know adore women so the idea of abuse sounds so foreign and unfathomable to me. I also understand not everyone has a support system to leave but its hard to believe in 2011 with all the educated and employed women there are this shit is still a crisis.
 
The Dark Knight said:
I'm not saying things like this don't happen. I've seen it growing up but the way its talked about sometimes is as if there aren't any options. And again maybe I am incredibly naive and have been around saints my whole life but the men in my life don't hit women, men in my life don't abuse women, they don't even joke about it. Truth is most men I know adore women so the idea of abuse sounds so foreign and unfathomable to me. I also understand not everyone has a support system to leave but its hard to believe in 2011 with all the educated and employed women there are this shit is still a crisis.
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Tell the truth, Andrae.

Tell the truth.
 
Tarshi said:
i'm so glad you got out of there, and have been able to rebuild and move on....there are so many who don't :smt058
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As usual, Tarshi hits it on the head.

What you experienced in seeing him on the television is known as being "triggered" and is a part of PTSD that a lot of abuse survivors have to deal with. I'm so sorry.
 
TheHuntress said:
Thank you, Kunoichi. People cannot understand this side of things.

The one time I threatened to call the police if he didn't stop hitting me, thinking it would scare him into stopping, but he grabbed the cell phone out of my hand, and broke it on my head. He said 'You could go ahead and call them, but you'll be dead before they get here, and even if I go to jail, I'll get out someday, you'll still be dead.'

The kind of terror an event like that evokes is very difficult to put into words.
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Speaking of police, more die during Domestic violence calls than any other death on their job.

Worse - I once very briefly dated a Sergeant - he told me (before the laws changed on domestic violence calls) that when it was a domestic violence call, he felt personally it was none of his business what goes on with a couple so if the man answered the door and said "everything is fine, you can leave", he'd leave. Isn't that crazy to read?

Without going into detail, I personally know a man who when served with restraining papers, said "I will die in a shootout (with the cops) before I ever leave my house!". Chilling.
 
TreePixie said:
As usual, Tarshi hits it on the head.

What you experienced in seeing him on the television is known as being "triggered" and is a part of PTSD that a lot of abuse survivors have to deal with. I'm so sorry.
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Thanks, TreePixie.

I didn't even consider PTSD, but I suppose that considering it's the first time I've seen him since (or what I think is him, otherwise, holy doppelganger!) , it would make sense.
 
Kunoichi said:
Speaking of police, more die during Domestic violence calls than any other death on their job.

Worse - I once very briefly dated a Sergeant - he told me (before the laws changed on domestic violence calls) that when it was a domestic violence call, he felt personally it was none of his business what goes on with a couple so if the man answered the door and said "everything is fine, you can leave", he'd leave. Isn't that crazy to read?

Without going into detail, I personally know a man who when served with restraining papers, said "I will die in a shootout (with the cops) before I ever leave my house!". Chilling.
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That's totally crazy, but a lot of people still believe that what goes on between two people is no one's business. Oddly enough, I called the police on my friend and her boyfriend in college. I was convinced he was going to throw her down the stairs, and I was terrified for her. For months, she didn't speak to me, and now we're close again....but some friends actually told me it wasn't my business because they were dating and if she wanted to call the cops, she could. I remembered thinking 'I'm pretty sure she can't while he's slapping the shit out of her...'
 
Espy said:
Not sure I'm reading this as you meant it, are you trying to assert that men don't support and provide for their families, or that women's roles are somehow more important in those respects?

I agree that education on domestic violence is needed, but just as much emphasis should be placed upon educating women not to put up with it, as there is on men not to perpetrate it. You cannot repeatedly abuse someone if they don't allow you to. I understand that some women have psychological issues that appear to predispose them to endure abuse, just as some men have psychological issues that cause them to abuse, and I'm not trying to make light of either side, nor to assign blame to the victims. However there is something amiss that allows one human being to allow another human being to repeatedly abuse them, and IMO if that could be addressed domestic violence would occur on a much smaller scale. I personally don't believe anyone should endure abuse, and it's completely unnecessary given the prevalence of domestic violence shelters and current laws. But none of that is going to be effective if it's not reported, and domestic violence goes unreported far too often. Emphasizing that the abused needs to report it, is every bit as important as attempts to educate the abuser. The approach needs to cover all sides to be effective.
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In many cases, the abuse happens so incrementally, it's hard to see it until you're in deep. The abuser has you questioning yourself....

I had an interesting phone call today, from the ex bf I spent 8 years with. I hadnt heard from him for a while, and I figured it was because his current gf didn't like the idea of me. But one of the reasons he hadn't called, it turns out, is that he was ashamed. He feels shame, because she's a nutcase, and he got dragged in so deep that it wound up as an emotionally abusive situation. It took him some time to understand what was going on. Since I'd been through it with my ex husband, I completely understood how he'd gotten sucked in. He knows he needs to get out, but he's a little afraid - the last time he tried to leave, she made a suicide attempt. I told him that's not his problem, and agreed to store some things for him (why he wants to store them 2000 miles away from home, I have no clue). She's managed to put distance between him and all of his friends, and completely trounced his relationship with his best friend of 35 years.

It happened slowly, one tiny step at a time. Each step was so small he'd have felt like a jerk making a big deal about it, it wouldnt have seemed reasonable. He's a very smart guy, and no pushover - clearly a pushover couldnt have dealt with me all those years - but now he's in a real mess, in debt, about to be out of a job, and living with an abusive crazy person. I feel for him - it's going to take a lot of work and a lot of strength to put his life back together again.

Abuse isn't a gender-based problem - men are emotionally and verbally abused, too. Some are physically abused.

It's a good thing for all people - men *and* women, to speak out against domestic violence in any form, and to learn to understand how easily it can happen to anyone, and how difficult it is to get out, stay out, and get your life back on track again.
 
The Dark Knight said:
I'm not saying things like this don't happen. I've seen it growing up but the way its talked about sometimes is as if there aren't any options. And again maybe I am incredibly naive and have been around saints my whole life but the men in my life don't hit women, men in my life don't abuse women, they don't even joke about it. Truth is most men I know adore women so the idea of abuse sounds so foreign and unfathomable to me. I also understand not everyone has a support system to leave but its hard to believe in 2011 with all the educated and employed women there are this shit is still a crisis.
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Most women that stay in an abusive relationship has no support system and for them, there are no options - unless the man gets arrested and some volunteer group or other person gets hold of the story and somehow manages to convince he to go to a shelter - it usually takes many many tries until that woman dare to trust and grasp that straw.
Its still a crisis - and it has nothing to do with more educated and employed women - that is not the problem.
 
TheHuntress said:
That's totally crazy, but a lot of people still believe that what goes on between two people is no one's business. Oddly enough, I called the police on my friend and her boyfriend in college. I was convinced he was going to throw her down the stairs, and I was terrified for her. For months, she didn't speak to me, and now we're close again....but some friends actually told me it wasn't my business because they were dating and if she wanted to call the cops, she could. I remembered thinking 'I'm pretty sure she can't while he's slapping the shit out of her...'
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i've had 2 close friends in relationships that became abusive.

the first, her husband beat within an inch of her life because he was drunk & he wanted sex and she didn't. she managed to escape & run next door & they called the police and arrested him. she had to leave her sleeping kids in the house though which she to this day beats herself up for. when the news broke amongst our friends, people questioned what she did to cause it and remained friends with him. smdh

the second, both have been physically violent with each other. she broke a glass over his shoulder because of an argument. my children and her children were in the house at the time so i removed them for their safety. it was his turn next where in a drunken rage, he grabbed her by the hair and threatened her life. he then took her house keys and walked off. she was petrified to go home just in case he was going to follow through with his threat, so i encouraged her to call the police to remove him from her home. again, this was done in front of her children. after that, i never allowed my children to be in their presence again. i got blamed for being a trouble maker btw, for having her call the police to remove him from her house.
 
TheHuntress;585110 but as a society we continue to ask 'why did you stay?' rather than 'why did he think it was OK to beat someone?!'[/QUOTE said:
THAT right there is truth. It's the same blame the victim mentality behind the "why were you drinking, why was your skirt that short, why did you talk to the guy" questions that rape victims get.

Where abuse is concerned, for men who are abused there's yet another problem - no one believes them. Their sense of shame is also a factor - women who are victims also feel it, but there is a gender-based "Im a man, how could I have let that happen to me" kind of feeling as well.
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FG said:
Not if you have been brainwashed, which is something that makes most women stay - they are mentally prisoners and/or there is threats against the woman's family and therefore she stays to save them.

This can actually happen to any woman, if the right conditions/method is applied. Its simply not that simple.
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I agree that nothing about this topic is simple, FG. However, brainwashing takes time, it doesn't happen overnight, and abuse tends to follow a pattern of becoming progressively worse. I still maintain that there is something about a woman's thought patterns that allows her to stay after the first time she's hit. If more left immediately, issues like brainwashing and threat of death would be less applicable IMO.

And the 'I love him, and he loves me' argument doesn't compute with me, because that implies that you think someone who loves you would abuse you. That is not love to me. Someone who truly loves you would never harm you. Perhaps that's where part of the disconnect takes place for women who stay in such relationships, I truly don't understand how they convince themselves that it's in their best interest to stay in such a relationship, and I likely never will be able to grasp that.

I am in no way advocating domestic abuse, nor supporting people who abuse. I simply don't see this as 'all men are evil & part of the problem'. As I said, educating everyone is the only viable solution IMO.
 
Kunoichi said:
Just to touch on the highlighted parts, often-times, signing a restraining order or divorce papers is signing a death warrant for an abused woman. She is often-times more likely to die when she leaves him, than if she stays.
Sometimes, a man will threaten to kill her family or her kids, if she leaves him. Or even of she tells anyone. It's real, it happens, and it's ugly.

I spoke with Denise Brown when she visited Temple on a Domestic Violence tour and I noted to her a similar irony. Which was that people were publicly criticizing her family that they knew Nicole was being beaten and they did "nothing" (which was untrue), and yet no-one was criticizing OJ's family for knowing and not stopping him. It wasn't just blame Nicole, but pile on her family, too.
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Well said - the most dangerous time for an abused woman is after she leaves. In *many* of the cases of murder-suicide or murder of an abused woman, the news stories will report that she'd recently left or recently embarked on a new relationship, or had a restraining order (which aren't worth the paper they are written on)
 
Espy said:
It's not always religion or society to blame, sometimes it's the person themselves. I understand there are victims and that blaming them in some situations is not appropriate, however they are not always blameless. As far as I'm concerned any woman who allows anyone to beat their child(ren) is responsible for that. If you won't act to protect yourself that's one thing, if you won't act to protect a child, you're just a weak, shitty parent IMO.
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Agreed. I have a friend of nearly my age who was sexually and physically abused by his father for years on end, starting at the age of 4. He still adores his late mother - and I don't get it. I do not understand how she could have stood by and allowed that to go on. I'd have murdered my husband in his sleep.
 
FG said:
Most women that stay in an abusive relationship has no support system and for them, there are no options - unless the man gets arrested and some volunteer group or other person gets hold of the story and somehow manages to convince he to go to a shelter - it usually takes many many tries until that woman dare to trust and grasp that straw.
Its still a crisis - and it has nothing to do with more educated and employed women - that is not the problem.
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Then what is the problem because me being a guy who doesn't do it nor do I associate with people who do its nearly impossible for me to see it.
I have friends who have been in abusive relationships but they usually stay because they are desperately hoping shit changes. No matter how much you try to help them they won't give up on the hope that shit will change.
 
The Dark Knight said:
I'm not saying things like this don't happen. I've seen it growing up but the way its talked about sometimes is as if there aren't any options. And again maybe I am incredibly naive and have been around saints my whole life but the men in my life don't hit women, men in my life don't abuse women, they don't even joke about it. Truth is most men I know adore women so the idea of abuse sounds so foreign and unfathomable to me. I also understand not everyone has a support system to leave but its hard to believe in 2011 with all the educated and employed women there are this shit is still a crisis.
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Believe it or not, Drae, they fact that they don't joke around about it is a BIG FUCKING DEAL. Making jokes about domestic violence, all meant in jest, happens a lot - but the thing is that the abusers see that as making their actions normal, like it's ok. So the fact that you and the men you know don't make jokes? Gets a huge farking round of applause from me. THANK YOU. :smt008
 
TreePixie said:
Well said - the most dangerous time for an abused woman is after she leaves. In *many* of the cases of murder-suicide or murder of an abused woman, the news stories will report that she'd recently left or recently embarked on a new relationship, or had a restraining order (which aren't worth the paper they are written on)
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But what about the first time they abuse you?
The way I look at it is if I wouldn't accept the behavior from a stranger I sure as hell wouldn't accept it from you. YOU know better.
 
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