Random Conversation

[The Dark King]

I'm uncomfortable with the idea of gun ownership as a right, and I don't believe that the constitution gives the private citizen that right either. We don't need a private militia nowadays to protect us from potential invaders on American soil. Perhaps, if this was the case, I might change my view.

It's hard to understand the psychology behind someone who values animal life so much, and yet seems to be so willing to take life over assets. Equally as disturbing are those who think that the key to crime reduction is to arm everyone, that's incredulous. The idea of people owning assault weapons, and artillery is ludicrous, IMO.


It would seem that if criminals suspected more people were armed, they would kill even more people to avoid danger to themselves. I would venture to say that most gun owners have seldom fired a weapon and aren't prepared to use the weapon, if they should attempt to use it. The danger is more to other family members or small children who might find often improperly stored and locked guns. Otherwise, guns are stolen by criminals and the legally purchased weapon now becomes another gun in the hands of criminals.


I'm like DB in that I try to avoid places so bad that I think I might be injured or places where I need to worry about my safety. You don't have to put yourself in unnecessary situations, whether that's waiting for a train at 2 in the morning or visiting any social establishment that might be a bit seedy.

I think that I'll take my chances and call the the nutty police if I need assistance, rather than worry about un-likelyhood of encountering nuts on the streets or in my home.

Then explain this. Why do states with lax gun laws have less home invasions and less gun crime overall where as cities like Chicago have the strictess gun laws but the most gun crimes.

 

[Bliss]

Rarely have I heard or read a story about a taxpayer with a gun getting the drop on a violent criminal. If you're going up against someone who's been hardened by the system, it doesn't matter if you're strapped. Yes your odds are better, but they'll probably kill your office cubicle fattened ass anyway.

Rarely heard or read? So I take it you've been looking all over the U.S for those stories?
Never mind how many crimes are averted because a criminal lives in a State that lawfully arms its citizens. Or that upon exhibiting a gun, a violent criminal may retreat and seek an unarmed victim elsewhere. Sorry, it does "matter if you're strapped".

I wonder all those stories you've heard or read where the criminal DOES get the upper hand, did their victim also have a gun? That's where you'd insert the word "rarely".
You portray as if violent criminals are these elite fit athletes overpowering our fat asses. Because they never miss, right? They always hit their targets right? Stray bullet victims 'got in the way". Hardened criminals never get shot or die during the commission of their violent acts.

People who own guns buy them and don't learn or know or practice how to use them...yeah, ok.

When a citizen justifiably shoots an intruder in self defense, its not a crime, nor are they charged. Hence the stats alter.

 

[Bliss]

...
It's hard to understand the psychology behind someone who values animal life so much, and yet seems to be so willing to take life over assets. TO DEFEND HER OWN LIFE AND HER FAMILY'S LIFE WHICH SHE VALUES DEEPLY, ALSO.

I think that I'll take my chances and call the the nutty police if I need assistance, rather than worry about un-likelyhood of encountering nuts on the streets or in my home.

FIXED!

Yep, because in the presence of a nut, reaching for the phone to call for the police is much easier done and will save your life, than reaching for a gun to save your self and your family.

 

[The Dark King]

Rarely heard or read? So I take it you've been looking all over the U.S for those stories?
Never mind how many crimes are averted because a criminal lives in a State that lawfully arms its citizens. Or that upon exhibiting a gun, a violent criminal may retreat and seek an unarmed victim elsewhere. Sorry, it does "matter if you're strapped".

I wonder all those stories you've heard or read where the criminal DOES get the upper hand, did their victim also have a gun? That's where you'd insert the word "rarely".
You portray as if violent criminals are these elite fit athletes overpowering our fat asses. Because they never miss, right? They always hit their targets right? Stray bullet victims 'got in the way". Hardened criminals never get shot or die during the commission of their violent acts.

People who own guns buy them and don't learn or know or practice how to use them...yeah, ok.

When a citizen justifiably shoots an intruder in self defense, its not a crime, nor are they charged. Hence the stats alter.

You're the Bonnie to my Clyde on this one kid. Keep dropping knowledge

 

[Bliss]

I bet you this everyone who's had a home invasion probably wishes they had a gun when they had to watch their families suffer and due. Keep living in the dark people

Yesterday night I parked my car and its dark and its dark and bushy with trees where I park...I heard a noise and I swear, the wave of anxiety and fear that overcame me because I was defenseless if someone ran up my driveway...all I thought of was my gun is in my house...damn!

 

[Bliss]

Well, chances are, if it's me versus some nutjob with a gun, even if I have a gun, it's just going to escalate the situation. I could never kill another human being, so if it has to be me, then it has to be me.

This is where we differ. I would kill to protect my child from being murdered.
I could NOT tell my baby's killer, go ahead and kill my child for I cannot kill you.
Ditto with my own life. You want to take my life, then it's on. I'm not laying down like a defenseless animal while you put a bullet in my brain.

OK, but in general, I don't associate with people or in areas where I'd have to worry about running into someone who would consider me a good target. As I said before, even if I did have a gun, and I was faced with someone else who did- look, I'm not going to kill another human being...so if it has to be me, then it has to be me, cause I sure as fuck am not pulling the trigger.

Who associates with people that makes you a target? I sure don't. However, the last time I looked down the barrel of a sawn-off double barrel pump action shotgun, it was as I got off the bus and walked up my street at 8pm..He followed me all the way up to my home. According to the cops , they came from other neighborhoods into the nicer ones. (My armed robber shot and killed his next victim the following day.)

I also believe that there are some serious issues with gun laws. I've said before on this forum that every gun needs to be collected and refitted to only go off if it's in the hand of someone who has the matching computer chip. Otherwise, it locks up. So, if you want a gun, you have to go through several different forms of psychological evaluations, and be willing to have a GPS/gun chip combo implanted into your hand with all of your codes and information on it, and that chip will be the only thing that makes that gun go off.

So all law enforcement, sheriffs, armed security officers/guards and military soldiers/personnel....should be computer hand-chipped?

 

[TheHuntress]

This is where we differ. I would kill to protect my child from being murdered.
I could NOT tell my baby's killer, go ahead and kill my child for I cannot kill you.
Ditto with my own life. You want to take my life, then it's on. I'm not laying down like a defenseless animal while you put a bullet in my brain.



Who associates with people that makes you a target? I sure don't. However, the last time I looked down the barrel of a sawn-off double barrel pump action shotgun, it was as I got off the bus and walked up my street at 8pm..He followed me all the way up to my home. According to the cops , they came from other neighborhoods into the nicer ones. (My armed robber shot and killed his next victim the following day.)



So all law enforcement, sheriffs, armed security officers/guards and military soldiers/personnel....should be computer hand-chipped?

yep.

 

[z]

Rarely heard or read? So I take it you've been looking all over the U.S for those stories?
Never mind how many crimes are averted because a criminal lives in a State that lawfully arms its citizens. Or that upon exhibiting a gun, a violent criminal may retreat and seek an unarmed victim elsewhere. Sorry, it does "matter if you're strapped".

I wonder all those stories you've heard or read where the criminal DOES get the upper hand, did their victim also have a gun? That's where you'd insert the word "rarely".
You portray as if violent criminals are these elite fit athletes overpowering our fat asses. Because they never miss, right? They always hit their targets right? Stray bullet victims 'got in the way". Hardened criminals never get shot or die during the commission of their violent acts.

People who own guns buy them and don't learn or know or practice how to use them...yeah, ok.

When a citizen justifiably shoots an intruder in self defense, its not a crime, nor are they charged. Hence the stats alter.

There was a story a few months ago about a vigilante. An oridnary citzen was walking into a gas station without realizing there was a hold up, two gunmen holding an old lady gas staion worker. This guy walks in & things gets exchanged, he got shot at, ducked down and drop one of the gun man (killed) in the store and chase the second one outside the station guns him down and drove off. I heard on the radio the cops were looking for him & they haven't gotten him. Lots of ppl calling that radio show and saying if they see him they won't call the police, lol. The fucker must be a former law enforcer or a very well trained citizen to walk in the middle of chaos and drop two armed punks down.

 

[Bliss]

I find people who feel that they NEED a gun to defend themselves are simply shortsighted and weak.

While you are trying to insult, ironically, you actually make their argument...the weak DO need guns to protect themselves.

I'm mainly referring to those who are "gun-nuts" and think even college students should be allowed to carry a gun around. If you want to defend yourself, then learn some Close-Quarter techniques and maybe take up kickboxing or Systema or Krav Maga in case they are too close to use a firearm. That way, at least you'll remember that you're also a weapon.

Krav Maga is a deadly combat art. There are calls to have it banned world-wide. In some states, If you are a trained martial artist, the law recognizes you as deadly weapon.

Tell me, BBW, why do you think (we or) you NEED to know a deadly form of self defense to defend your life? Are you weak and short-sighted?

 

[Bliss]

There was a story a few months ago about a vigilante. An oridnary citzen was walking into a gas station without realizing there was a hold up, two gunmen holding an old lady gas staion worker. This guy walks in & things gets exchanged, he got shot at, ducked down and drop one of the gun man (killed) in the store and chase the second one outside the station guns him down and drove off. I heard on the radio the cops were looking for him & they haven't gotten him. Lots of ppl calling that radio show and saying if they see him they won't call the police, lol. The fucker must be a former law enforcer or a very well trained citizen to walk in the middle of chaos and drop two armed punks down.

No doubt he was, lol. More power to him.
Though I have seen plenty of unskilled Indian gas station workers fearlessly take out armed robbers. (Sometimes all they use is a stick or a machette, ha ha.)

 

[satyr]

Uh, there are generally more murders per capita in states with relatively lax gun control laws and in terms of international metrics, countries with stronger gun control laws also have dramatically lower homicide rates. The latter is something every Australian should know. As federal gun control laws in the U.S. have gotten tougher over the last two decades (e.g. The Brady Bill), so has there been a collective drop in violent crime.

I swear it's like shooting fish in a barrel with you.

Rarely heard or read? So I take it you've been looking all over the U.S for those stories?
Never mind how many crimes are averted because a criminal lives in a State that lawfully arms its citizens. Or that upon exhibiting a gun, a violent criminal may retreat and seek an unarmed victim elsewhere. Sorry, it does "matter if you're strapped".

 

[Morning Star]

You're really overstepping the post overall, so I'll simplify it for you in case you miss the point.

Knowing how to defend yourself with AND without a gun would make you less likely to get killed. You're only coming off as a fool if you deny this bit of logic. If someone comes close to you, disarms you and you have no shred of survival instinct beyond a pop toy, and this individual is bigger and stronger than you are, are you cower down or fight with every ounce? Give yourself time to this over.

It's called improvising and playing it smart. No fool would be without knowing a little bit of self-defense if they value their own damn lives. Simply relying on a long range weapon would tell the antagonizer, "IT'S RAPE TIME". Undermining factual information satyr provided to prove his point only make trigger happy individuals like you...weak.

Krav Maga is a deadly combat art. There are calls to have it banned world-wide. In some states, If you are a trained martial artist, the law recognizes you as deadly weapon.

Tell me, BBW, why do you think (we or) you NEED to know a deadly form of self defense to defend your life? Are you weak and short-sighted?

 

[Bliss]

Uh, there are generally more murders per capita in states with relatively lax gun control laws and in terms of international metrics, countries with stronger gun control laws also have dramatically lower homicide rates. The latter is something every Australian should know. As federal gun control laws in the U.S. have gotten tougher over the last two decades (e.g. The Brady Bill), so has there been a collective drop in violent crime.

I swear it's like shooting fish in a barrel with you.

Is that so?

Well according to your very own data, the State with some of the worst gun murder numbers is DC, which comes in at #1. Yet DC has some of the strongest anti-gun laws. No decline there also, btw.
LA at #2 has lax, and #3 AL has moderate laws, and #4 ND has stronger law.

For the declining gun crime States, Vermont is #1..yet they have some of the MOST lax gun laws. The next is IDAHO, also a lax gun State.
Next is NH...also a lax gun law State. #4 is IA, #5 is ND, #6 is SD....ALL have EXTREMELY LAX GUN LAWS.

Shall I keep going?
(Just so you know, your Brady Bill provided me the State gun Law stats)


Furthermore, did you ever stop to wonder WHY gun crime is declining, and yet gun OWNERSHIP is rising?

Violent crime declines as American gun ownership rises
http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-seattle/violent-crime-declines-as-american-gun-ownership-rises

Think maybe, just maybe there might be a correlation?

I will say that you must not be a gun owner because your aim in the barrel...is pretty shitty. I can teach you how to aim better if you like?

 

[Morning Star]

Did it ever occur you that crime drops not because of more people carrying guns (bad guys can still acquire them in the black markets, kiddo), but the FEAR of crime continues to rise every year? Yes, that very psychological stigma that causes people to go out and do some outlandish things.

Fear of dying? Join a cult (religion) and buy some ammunition.
Fear of darkness? Nightlights are available.
Fear of car getting stolen? Buy an OnStar!
Fear of...
Fear of...

The correlation? FEAR OF CRIME!

Is that so?

Well according to your very own data, the State with some of the worst gun murder numbers is DC, which comes in at #1. Yet DC has some of the strongest anti-gun laws. No decline there also, btw.
LA at #2 has lax, and #3 AL has moderate laws, and #4 ND has stronger law.

For the declining gun crime States, Vermont is #1..yet they have some of the MOST lax gun laws. The next is IDAHO, also a lax gun State.
Next is NH...also a lax gun law State. #4 is IA, #5 is ND, #6 is SD....ALL have EXTREMELY LAX GUN LAWS.

Shall I keep going?
(Just so you know, your Brady Bill provided me the State gun Law stats)


Furthermore, did you ever stop to wonder WHY gun crime is declining, and yet gun OWNERSHIP is rising?

Violent crime declines as American gun ownership rises
http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-seattle/violent-crime-declines-as-american-gun-ownership-rises

Think maybe, just maybe there might be a correlation?

I will say that you must not be a gun owner because your aim in the barrel...is pretty shitty. I can teach you how to aim better if you like?

 

[TreePixie]

Is that so?

Well according to your very own data, the State with some of the worst gun murder numbers is DC, which comes in at #1. Yet DC has some of the strongest anti-gun laws. No decline there also, btw.
LA at #2 has lax, and #3 AL has moderate laws, and #4 ND has stronger law.

For the declining gun crime States, Vermont is #1..yet they have some of the MOST lax gun laws. The next is IDAHO, also a lax gun State.
Next is NH...also a lax gun law State. #4 is IA, #5 is ND, #6 is SD....ALL have EXTREMELY LAX GUN LAWS.

Shall I keep going?
(Just so you know, your Brady Bill provided me the State gun Law stats)


Furthermore, did you ever stop to wonder WHY gun crime is declining, and yet gun OWNERSHIP is rising?

Violent crime declines as American gun ownership rises
http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-seattle/violent-crime-declines-as-american-gun-ownership-rises

Think maybe, just maybe there might be a correlation?

I will say that you must not be a gun owner because your aim in the barrel...is pretty shitty. I can teach you how to aim better if you like?

I *will* note that all those "lax gun law" states are also primarily RURAL, which means we're probably 1. not talking handguns so much as hunting guns, and 2. far less likely to have high violent crime stats than places which are densely populated and have a lot of city folk.

I know NH and VT well, and their idea of a big city is what most people would call a small town.

 

[Bliss]

I *will* note that all those "lax gun law" states are also primarily RURAL, which means we're probably 1. not talking handguns so much as hunting guns, and 2. far less likely to have high violent crime stats than places which are densely populated and have a lot of city folk.

I know NH and VT well, and their idea of a big city is what most people would call a small town.

Washing State, Oregon, Colorado, Minnesota, Alabama, Virginia and North Carolina all have moderate to good anti-gun laws...and Hawaii and PA have strong laws --I would assert they're as rural and as hunter friendly, as many of the lax gun law States.

From my memory of reading some stats a few months ago, I believe St Louis MO had the worse violent crime rate...which isn't known primarily as a densely populated city.

 

[satyr]

First of all D.C. is not a state it is a municipality, which is telling in that it is usually cities that skew homicide numbers. Secondly, if you look at the data again with a more discerning eye you see that, as an aggregate, states with lax gun control laws have higher rates of homicide per capita than those who do not. Thirdly, why would a state like Vermont, Maine, or New Hampshire need tougher gun control laws at the state level without some precedent of a major increase in gun homicides?

California, my state and the most populous in the Union, implemented tougher gun control laws to deal with the problem of gun homicides in our major cities, particularly in Los Angeles and the Bay Area. Murders in Los Angeles, the second most populous city in America, are currently at their lowest rate in forty years. Theories abound as to why that is, but a relatively more difficult journey from the gun shop to the owner's hand does not hurt.

Is that so?

Well according to your very own data, the State with some of the worst gun murder numbers is DC, which comes in at #1. Yet DC has some of the strongest anti-gun laws. No decline there also, btw.
LA at #2 has lax, and #3 AL has moderate laws, and #4 ND has stronger law.

 

[Bliss]

First of all D.C. is not a state it is a municipality, which is telling in that it is usually cities that skew homicide numbers. Secondly, if you look at the data again with a more discerning eye you see that, as an aggregate, states with lax gun control laws have higher rates of homicide per capita than those who do not. Thirdly, why would a state like Vermont, Maine, or New Hampshire need tougher gun control laws at the state level without some precedent of a major increase in gun homicides?

California, my state and the most populous in the Union, implemented tougher gun control laws to deal with the problem of gun homicides in our major cities, particularly in Los Angeles and the Bay Area. Murders in Los Angeles, the second most populous city in America, are currently at their lowest rate in forty years. Theories abound as to why that is, but a relatively more difficult journey from the gun shop to the owner's hand does not hurt.

Unless you delved into each state, that chart doesn't not give you an aggregate overall - not saying you didn't, but I stopped researching at the top 5 worse/better, personally.
I don't know the answer why for Vermont, Maine and New Hampshire except to say they are 3 Blue States and may be politically biased, who knows...I'd have to delve deeper at another time to see possibly why.

CA, despite implementing tougher gun laws, as of 2010, ranked #15 as the most violent.
Crime-State-Rankings-2010

I read your story on LA's lowest crime rate in 40 yrs...oddly neither city officials nor criminologists cited tougher gun laws as the reason. Rather (as you suggested) they theorize the state of the economy, the death of heavily armed crack wars, gang intervention/diffusing retaliations, murderers either dead or jailed, and demographics (wondering too if your city has seen a population decline or a mass exodus..legals or illegals).
So I'm not sure the roadblocks from seller to owner is as significant, as you suggest, particularly since Mexico is right there to smuggle in guns.

Even if we debate this ad naseum, the 2nd Amendment isn't going anywhere, and even if the laws keep getting tougher, what you will see is the larger formation of strictly gun owner States vs non Gun States (which ironically, would truly determine gun crime numbers). Unless we put up internal borders, how can we ever determine true crime stats?

In the meantime, for self preservation purposes, I'm back to my stance of when the crims put theirs down, so shall I.

 

[Archman]

Damn !!.......Downgraded to a double AA bond rating on the brother's watch.........not what you want to be remembered for in history books to come......

 

[vanilla2chai]

Wow! This gun thing is crazy!

As an ex police officer I know what guns can do . Most civilians who have guns are actually too afraid to use them.They think they can, they talk big talk " I will waste any mother fucker that comes in my house"

Most gun owners have their own gun used on themselves. Or their kids shoot themselves. Guns don't kill people. Guns in the hands of people kill people