Random Conversation

[The Dark King]

I'm speaking about recent movements by groups like Plan International that found that educating a woman meant she would educate her children, and her husbands family. Men, on the other hand, when given money and education, would hoard the knowledge, and spend the money, most of the time, on frivolous things (like going to a local watering hole) because they were men and that's what men do. There's been a larger movement to education women and girls because of this, while also focusing on educating men on the fact that traditional gender roles are not acceptable and hinder the development of a culture.

Why is it sexist if I said the same thing regarding women. Hmmmm

However, not being a survivor of domestic abuse, you can't really speak on what someone 'should' or 'should not' do, because you can't possibly understand the fear that someone experiences. Only those of us who've endured can speak in an educated fashion, and I can assure you, no matter what you swear you'd never put up with, you'd be amazed at the number of women who once sat in my support group and said the same thing and DID endure it....the reasons why don't really matter, because they were their own reasons, but as a society we continue to ask 'why did you stay?' rather than 'why did he think it was OK to beat someone?!'

Why can't both questions be asked if you are truly trying to stop the problem?

 

[The Dark King]

And that's why you will continue to be single.

DB I really wouldn't go there with me if I were you kid.

And who ever said I wasn't single by choice lol

 

[TheHuntress]

Why can't both questions be asked if you are truly trying to stop the problem?

Oh? That's like asking a rape victim what she was wearing, Andrae. C'mon. You're smarter than that.

DB I really wouldn't go there with me if I were you kid.

And who ever said I wasn't single by choice lol

Threatening me?

I've had too much wine to care at this point. I know how you think.

 

[Ches]

The same people who believe that men are 'head of the household' are the same ones that would step aside while they are beating their children- particularly their daughters. I could list several books on the subject, all first person accounts of women who survived a variety of abuse situations while their mothers looked on because they held strong religious or social beliefs about the role of men in women's lives.

And let's face it, as women, in any society, we aren't valued- it is worse in third world countries. You can believe what you want, but as long as men continue to call each other 'pussy' as an insult, just like they use the word 'gay', then they're perpetuating the abuse they purport not to condone.

Please don't generalize. Head of household or not, loved him or not, there is no way on God's green earth that my ex-husband would have beaten my child and gotten away with it. I will say I wouldn't have let him hit me either, but like you said, one doesn't always know what one will do when faced with a situation. But I don't even have to think twice when it comes to my child.

 

[Espy]

I'm speaking about recent movements by groups like Plan International that found that educating a woman meant she would educate her children, and her husbands family. Men, on the other hand, when given money and education, would hoard the knowledge, and spend the money, most of the time, on frivolous things (like going to a local watering hole) because they were men and that's what men do. There's been a larger movement to education women and girls because of this, while also focusing on educating men on the fact that traditional gender roles are not acceptable and hinder the development of a culture.

However, not being a survivor of domestic abuse, you can't really speak on what someone 'should' or 'should not' do, because you can't possibly understand the fear that someone experiences. Only those of us who've endured can speak in an educated fashion, and I can assure you, no matter what you swear you'd never put up with, you'd be amazed at the number of women who once sat in my support group and said the same thing and DID endure it....the reasons why don't really matter, because they were their own reasons, but as a society we continue to ask 'why did you stay?' rather than 'why did he think it was OK to beat someone?!'

You shouldn't assume that someone who hasn't shared intimate details about specific situations has never experienced them. I simply don't discuss personal matters with people in general. However as it has direct bearing on this conversation, I will tell you that someone did try to beat me once, it was the only time he hit me and it ended badly for him. I didn't give one seconds thought to spending one more minute in his presence after that day, the saying 'he's dead to me' was very accurate. So I do in fact know exactly what I would do in that particular situation, and I'm sure not ever going to go back and give someone a second chance. One time, that's all anyone would ever get with me, and I don't give a damn who they are, or what I felt for them up until that point... you strike me, you're gone.

Just as some people are apparently programmed to put up with abuse, some simply are not at all.

 

[The Dark King]

Oh? That's like asking a rape victim what she was wearing, Andrae. C'mon. You're smarter than that.



Threatening me?

I've had too much wine to care at this point. I know how you think.

Putting the blame totally on one side won't help anything unless your solution is only to whine and complain. Like when I was younger I knew better than to go to bad parts of NY like parkchester or fordhman by myself but me and my friends would go there anyway. A couple of my friends got robbed in a subway station at knife point and the first question was always why the fuck were you there in the first place. We all know how the world should be but to ignore how it actually is, is down right foolish. I'm not saying you always have control but take control when you can. It's the smart thing to do.

How drunk are you? Who the hell threatened you woman?
I just don't get the single jab when you yourself have said on many of occasions that any woman would be lucky to have me. Now that you're not single there's something wrong with me lol

 

[TheHuntress]

Please don't generalize. Head of household or not, loved him or not, there is no way on God's green earth that my ex-husband would have beaten my child and gotten away with it. I will say I wouldn't have let him hit me either, but like you said, one doesn't always know what one will do when faced with a situation. But I don't even have to think twice when it comes to my child.

I was speaking more in terms of third world countries. Muslim women and girls are particularly abused under this umbrella, but there is proof that says that people that subscribe to the idea of man as head of household are more likely to deal with it because those women are less likely to work and have their own income/support system to be able to escape. Less likely doesn't mean 100%.

You shouldn't assume that someone who hasn't shared intimate details about specific situations has never experienced them. I simply don't discuss personal matters with people in general. However as it has direct bearing on this conversation, I will tell you that someone did try to beat me once, it was the only time he hit me and it ended badly for him. I didn't give one seconds thought to spending one more minute in his presence after that day, the saying 'he's dead to me' was very accurate. So I do in fact know exactly what I would do in that particular situation, and I'm sure not ever going to go back and give someone a second chance. One time, that's all anyone would ever get with me, and I don't give a damn who they are, or what I felt for them up until that point... you strike me, you're gone.

Just as some people are apparently programmed to put up with abuse, some simply are not at all.

So...as I was saying, victim-blaming runs rampant in society.

It also seems to run rampant on this board.

 

[Bliss]

..However, not being a survivor of domestic abuse, you can't really speak on what someone 'should' or 'should not' do, because you can't possibly understand the fear that someone experiences. Only those of us who've endured can speak in an educated fashion, and I can assure you, no matter what you swear you'd never put up with, you'd be amazed at the number of women who once sat in my support group and said the same thing and DID endure it....the reasons why don't really matter, because they were their own reasons, but as a society we continue to ask 'why did you stay?' rather than 'why did he think it was OK to beat someone?!'

Just to touch on the highlighted parts, often-times, signing a restraining order or divorce papers is signing a death warrant for an abused woman. She is often-times more likely to die when she leaves him, than if she stays.
Sometimes, a man will threaten to kill her family or her kids, if she leaves him. Or even of she tells anyone. It's real, it happens, and it's ugly.

I spoke with Denise Brown when she visited Temple on a Domestic Violence tour and I noted to her a similar irony. Which was that people were publicly criticizing her family that they knew Nicole was being beaten and they did "nothing" (which was untrue), and yet no-one was criticizing OJ's family for knowing and not stopping him. It wasn't just blame Nicole, but pile on her family, too.

 

[Espy]

The same people who believe that men are 'head of the household' are the same ones that would step aside while they are beating their children- particularly their daughters. I could list several books on the subject, all first person accounts of women who survived a variety of abuse situations while their mothers looked on because they held strong religious or social beliefs about the role of men in women's lives.

And let's face it, as women, in any society, we aren't valued- it is worse in third world countries. You can believe what you want, but as long as men continue to call each other 'pussy' as an insult, just like they use the word 'gay', then they're perpetuating the abuse they purport not to condone.

It's not always religion or society to blame, sometimes it's the person themselves. I understand there are victims and that blaming them in some situations is not appropriate, however they are not always blameless. As far as I'm concerned any woman who allows anyone to beat their child(ren) is responsible for that. If you won't act to protect yourself that's one thing, if you won't act to protect a child, you're just a weak, shitty parent IMO.

 

[The Dark King]

You shouldn't assume that someone who hasn't shared intimate details about specific situations has never experienced them. I simply don't discuss personal matters with people in general. However as it has direct bearing on this conversation, I will tell you that someone did try to beat me once, it was the only time he hit me and it ended badly for him. I didn't give one seconds thought to spending one more minute in his presence after that day, the saying 'he's dead to me' was very accurate. So I do in fact know exactly what I would do in that particular situation, and I'm sure not ever going to go back and give someone a second chance. One time, that's all anyone would ever get with me, and I don't give a damn who they are, or what I felt for them up until that point... you strike me, you're gone.

Just as some people are apparently programmed to put up with abuse, some simply are not at all.

Damn I'm all out of rep

 

[TheHuntress]

Putting the blame totally on one side won't help anything unless your solution is only to whine and complain. Like when I was younger I knew better than to go to bad parts of NY like parkchester or fordhman by myself but me and my friends would go there anyway. A couple of my friends got robbed in a subway station at knife point and the first question was always why the fuck were you there in the first place. We all know how the world should be but to ignore how it actually is, is down right foolish. I'm not saying you always have control but take control when you can. It's the smart thing to do.

How drunk are you? Who the hell threatened you woman?
I just don't get the single jab when you yourself have said on many of occasions that any woman would be lucky to have me. Now that you're not single there's something wrong with me lol

Oh? Did I word it just like that? Because last I remember, I told you to stop dating babies and have some self-respect. lol Maybe you're confusing me with someone else?

There's always been something wrong with you. But that's another conversation entirely. And I'm about 1.5 bottles in. I figured, since I've got strep throat, all I've got left is wine....and I hear it kills germs. Might as well enjoy it.

 

[Espy]

I was speaking more in terms of third world countries. Muslim women and girls are particularly abused under this umbrella, but there is proof that says that people that subscribe to the idea of man as head of household are more likely to deal with it because those women are less likely to work and have their own income/support system to be able to escape. Less likely doesn't mean 100%.



So...as I was saying, victim-blaming runs rampant in society.

It also seems to run rampant on this board.

I don't consider that statement victim blaming. There is clearly something in an individual's mental makeup that allows them to put up with being abused. The self-preservation instinct is pretty strong, so something makes a victim ignore that.

 

[TheHuntress]

Just to touch on the highlighted parts, often-times, signing a restraining order or divorce papers is signing a death warrant for an abused woman. She is often-times more likely to die when she leaves him, than if she stays.
Sometimes, a man will threaten to kill her family or her kids, if she leaves him. Or even of she tells anyone. It's real, it happens, and it's ugly.

I spoke with Denise Brown when she visited Temple on a Domestic Violence tour and I noted to her a similar irony. Which was that people were publicly criticizing her family that they knew Nicole was being beaten and they did "nothing" (which was untrue), and yet no-one was criticizing OJ's family for knowing and not stopping him. It wasn't just blame Nicole, but pile on her family, too.

Thank you, Kunoichi. People cannot understand this side of things.

The one time I threatened to call the police if he didn't stop hitting me, thinking it would scare him into stopping, but he grabbed the cell phone out of my hand, and broke it on my head. He said 'You could go ahead and call them, but you'll be dead before they get here, and even if I go to jail, I'll get out someday, you'll still be dead.'

The kind of terror an event like that evokes is very difficult to put into words.

 

[The Dark King]

Oh? Did I word it just like that? Because last I remember, I told you to stop dating babies and have some self-respect. lol Maybe you're confusing me with someone else?

There's always been something wrong with you. But that's another conversation entirely. And I'm about 1.5 bottles in. I figured, since I've got strep throat, all I've got left is wine....and I hear it kills germs. Might as well enjoy it.

Something wrong with me? Says the woman who still interacts with her statutory rapist lol. You are laughable at best.

 

[TheHuntress]

I don't consider that statement victim blaming. There is clearly something in an individual's mental makeup that allows them to put up with being abused. The self-preservation instinct is pretty strong, so something makes a victim ignore that.

There's clearly something in an abuser's mental makeup that allows them to be master manipulators, able to weasel their way into someone's head to the extent that they are able to control even the smallest of things. How you iron the clothes, how long eggs are cooked, at what time you leave the house for work, etc. It doesn't happen overnight- it just happens.

The only thing a victim/survivor of abuse is guilty of is loving the wrong person, and loving them too much...to the point that they think if they love them a little more, or do something a little different, the abuse will stop. That's why I saw your statement as victim-blaming.

 

[FG]

Why can't both questions be asked if you are truly trying to stop the problem?

The truth is that women stay because they have slowly been brainwashed and/or threatened. Before the beatings start, there is usually emotional and mental abuse that many women are mental prisoners before it is escalated to violent physical abuse. Often, these men isolate their woman as well so that she has no confidants or anyone to lean on.
The other part is that there is usually also a threat to the woman's family and kids etc - "I will kill them if you leave" so they stay.

Its a very complicated issue and most of these men that take this route, have no clue they are doing anything wrong. Its justified with "she made me do it" and other nonsense. I personally know of a professor that openly said to my class that when his wife burned the chicken for the third time, he took his rings off and hit her (because he didnt want the rings to hurt her, wtf) and that she then got the message.. "I had to teach her". He had NO clue that what he was doing is not ok.

 

[FG]

I don't consider that statement victim blaming. There is clearly something in an individual's mental makeup that allows them to put up with being abused. The self-preservation instinct is pretty strong, so something makes a victim ignore that.

Not if you have been brainwashed, which is something that makes most women stay - they are mentally prisoners and/or there is threats against the woman's family and therefore she stays to save them.

This can actually happen to any woman, if the right conditions/method is applied. Its simply not that simple.

 

[TheHuntress]

Something wrong with me? Says the woman who still interacts with her statutory rapist lol. You are laughable at best.

laughable? Do you even know what statutory rape is? It's considered rape because one partner is younger than the legal age of consent. There are lots of actual relationships on the books because one partner was 17 and the other was 22, and they ended up married for 60+ years. This person and I were friends before the 'relationship', and once I went off to college, we remained in touch with the understanding that the entire thing wasn't feasible to maintain. We went our separate ways. We reconnected two years ago because we actually are both in the training business.

So...your attempts to insult me based on facts you don't know....?? Laughable.

 

[The Dark King]

There's clearly something in an abuser's mental makeup that allows them to be master manipulators, able to weasel their way into someone's head to the extent that they are able to control even the smallest of things. How you iron the clothes, how long eggs are cooked, at what time you leave the house for work, etc. It doesn't happen overnight- it just happens.

The only thing a victim/survivor of abuse is guilty of is loving the wrong person, and loving them too much...to the point that they think if they love them a little more, or do something a little different, the abuse will stop. That's why I saw your statement as victim-blaming.

Dumb shit like that is why the problem will never stop. So the victim should never stop and think why the hell am I dealing with someone who nit picks about all the things I do for them. Why am I so clingy to a person who doesn't "allow" me to have a life outside of them. Does the term warning signs mean nothing?

 

[Bliss]

...
Just as some people are apparently programmed to put up with abuse, some simply are not at all.

Interesting choice of words. You'd be surprised how much 'de-programing" goes on before an man abusive man will "strike".

There is usually 3 stages of the abuse cycle. The build up, the violence, the apology (the make-up). When tactics like initial showering of attention, followed by isolation and breaking their self-esteem, making them financially dependent, telling her she will never see her kids again if she leaves, etc., can you see how some women may not have the mental strength to simply "walk out the door"?

Sometimes too, a woman is made to feel by herself (or his family or even her family) that it's her fault she is being beaten and if she just behaved or didn't fuck up, he wouldn't hit her. So she'll stay to "fix it". Or him. So many dynamics.